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The Board - general discussion (including Res 12); notes from the AGM
Topic Started: 15 Jul 2014, 12:03 AM (1,414,912 Views)
CarlisleCelt
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Lawell has more or less said in his statement that we cannot live without the hun, we truly are effed.
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brianlara67
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Getting on a bit
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Will anyone ask SPLOB if the situation is as bad as he states it is in terms of the current "market" why his total pay package is not reflected in that. The only thing that is bombproof is his pay packet.
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Wee Red
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not too serious
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Poggibonsi
29 Aug 2014, 11:18 PM
Having listened to the various Lawwell interviews one thing that doesn't seem to sit right is the level of investment afforded to each of the previous 4 managers. Over £30m under Lenny?

Taking what should be the most straightforward, Mowbray, who did he spend £13m on? I can only think of Fortune and Ki in terms of significant transfers. Has he thrown wages in there too??
Of course he has included wages he has to, although PL has made many errors of judgement, tardy inaction, and policy, some folk are oblivious that £20K PW salaries equate to £1M a year, and a £2M 4 year signing on £20K costs £6M.
His interview was simply defensive spin when he had the chance for complete honesty and a reset of his relationship with the fans.
He should have been holding his hands up, and stating that they had cumulatively got things wrong and would have to review policies to attempt to turn things around.
For me there were a few contemporary things I've observed wrong and others proven with hind sight.
The balance sheet has been the priority, football success secondary.
The mechanisms set up to achieve the healthy balance sheet may initially have been thought to be an indicator that the footballing side was flourishing, i.e. bums on seats.
PL seemed to adopt the canny purse holder mentality that Scots bankers were famous for, which in itself is not a bad thing. He also got a good bonus from being tight and careful, if the balance sheet was positive. The reward system at the football club did not take account of any measurement of footballing successes that significantly boosts the coffers. Ticket sales, new/additional sponsorships, or media deals that all come from maintaining an attractardive brand, and an entertaining successful team.
Another evident flaw was his tardiness and lack of awareness of when team strengthening was expedient to guarantee income from football success. Certain historic misses in player acquisitions during transfer windows will be on his gravestone as markers of Celtic's downward spiral of missed opportunities during his tenure.
The final factor is that players are being foisted on managers, by whatever system, and the evidence of recent times is that they are most definitely not getting more right than wrong. The quality brought in has been wasteful of time and effort, setting the team back.
Himself and the board need to address these patently obvious flaws, or bow out for a new generation of paid custodians with more imagination and football related nous. They are failing in their duties to the worldwide support, and a great institution could slowly wither through a combination of myopic inaction, personal greed, laziness, and failure to match the ambition of the worldwide Celtic support.
The fans need an honest appraisal of your plans to fix it Peter, no more lies or spin, or maybe you are not up to it?
Edited by Wee Red, 30 Aug 2014, 10:18 AM.
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JamesJoyce
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Lawell yet again showing his contempt for Celtic fans. The man is a disease on our club and he must be removed.
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Wanyerma
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Frank Ricard
30 Aug 2014, 09:30 AM
Silent Witness
30 Aug 2014, 09:26 AM
lennox11
30 Aug 2014, 01:14 AM
I think Lawwell is the easy target in all of this. I'm not the biggest fan of all the decisions that have been made over the past few seasons but I feel that regardless of what lawwell said yesterday, people would (rightly or wrongly) find fault with it.

We all look for scapegoats after defeats. The majority of folk are (in my opinion) rightly not rounding on the manager yet. So that frustration needs to be levelled at someone. Due to the anarchic nature of a sizable number of football fans, it's a logical process to turn on the guy who controls the purse strings and who himself gets a more than modest living from the club.

I don't know what the guy does, day in day out, but if we want to be a successful club on and off the pitch you need someone with a bit of business acumen and he seems to have that.

I have noticed a number of really emotive and impassioned posts here particularly since Tuesday. For those who lived through the 90s, there is a tacit understanding that although it's not fabulous at the minute, it's been worse. It may improve this season, and indeed before Tuesday I think there were many of us who could see green shoots of progress.

Maybe the perceived lack of funding that drove Lenny and Johan away was because the board were unhappy with the waste of money on players such as balde, big derk, pukki, murphy, and murphy. It's funny how for some celtic fans these problems are not lenny's for picking them, but that it was lawwell's for limiting him to certain amounts of cash.

I think, personally, he spoke as much truth about the financial state of the club as you'd comfortably want to be known by everyone.

Don't want to be seen to be the token fan who is seen to be taken in by the club's 'propaganda'. I just think we could all benefit from a little perspective. Lawwell is turning into a pantomime villain; an opinion which is peddled by some rather unhelpful ex celts in the media. It's fine to criticise, but I feel that the unrelenting criticism is a bit much.
A voice of reason at last
I don't know what the guy does day in day out.

:potm:
He wants to run a big club with a small club mentality is what he does.

If we can't make ends meet then our operation is too big. Cull it. There are too many players employed by Celtic at all levels. Cull the numbers. Our youth set up is clearly failing, with only the odd exception, so a prudent business man would take a hard look at that.

No, our wonderful policy is to replace our youth system by buying foreign young players and nurturing them and selling them for profit. Then why have a large youth system?

The man gets paid a 1m pounds a year to run a club that is a Euro also-ran. If we want to make ends meet, start with his salary and work down. He's a clown.
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Lubo's Left Boot 2012 Ltd.
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Overall, Lawell has done a good job at the club, but with every organization there needs to be a check and balances system of power. Right now he has too much influence in Football operations where it is detrimental to product on the field. It's quite clear with the turnover of managers that their hands are tied beyond reason.
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beer_goggler1888
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Sold players for 11.2 million and brought in players for zero fees thus far this summer.

Lawwell continues to piss up our leg while insulting us till our face.

Still on course to post record profits then Pedro :nono:
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SpiritofLisbon
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ssmith81
30 Aug 2014, 09:41 AM
I'm sorry but I don't remember too many of us demanding 4-6million pound players. 2 or 3 at 3million would be nice though.

edit; have we as a support, maybe underestimated the zombiefication of deid co?
Agreed, Lawwell speaking about £6 million pound players and having to pay them £60,000 pw ... Its total bullshampoo he is trying to pull the wool over the fans eyes !!

The average first team salary at Celtic is around £14,000 , with the top salary being £25k (Brown) ... so why drop figures like £60,000 per week and £6 million transfers ... Their are decent players out there who cost much less than this

The Celtic fans are being short changed BIG TIME !!
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Kris
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Silent Witness
30 Aug 2014, 09:26 AM
lennox11
30 Aug 2014, 01:14 AM
I think Lawwell is the easy target in all of this. I'm not the biggest fan of all the decisions that have been made over the past few seasons but I feel that regardless of what lawwell said yesterday, people would (rightly or wrongly) find fault with it.

We all look for scapegoats after defeats. The majority of folk are (in my opinion) rightly not rounding on the manager yet. So that frustration needs to be levelled at someone. Due to the anarchic nature of a sizable number of football fans, it's a logical process to turn on the guy who controls the purse strings and who himself gets a more than modest living from the club.

I don't know what the guy does, day in day out, but if we want to be a successful club on and off the pitch you need someone with a bit of business acumen and he seems to have that.

I have noticed a number of really emotive and impassioned posts here particularly since Tuesday. For those who lived through the 90s, there is a tacit understanding that although it's not fabulous at the minute, it's been worse. It may improve this season, and indeed before Tuesday I think there were many of us who could see green shoots of progress.

Maybe the perceived lack of funding that drove Lenny and Johan away was because the board were unhappy with the waste of money on players such as balde, big derk, pukki, murphy, and murphy. It's funny how for some celtic fans these problems are not lenny's for picking them, but that it was lawwell's for limiting him to certain amounts of cash.

I think, personally, he spoke as much truth about the financial state of the club as you'd comfortably want to be known by everyone.

Don't want to be seen to be the token fan who is seen to be taken in by the club's 'propaganda'. I just think we could all benefit from a little perspective. Lawwell is turning into a pantomime villain; an opinion which is peddled by some rather unhelpful ex celts in the media. It's fine to criticise, but I feel that the unrelenting criticism is a bit much.
A voice of reason at last
x 2
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murphio
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There is nothing reasonable about that post. Lawwell claims we need to sell players to fill a gap in revenue. If that were true we'd be breaking even. But we are not... we are massively profitable. His comments were completely disingenuous.
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lennox11
30 Aug 2014, 01:14 AM
I think Lawwell is the easy target in all of this. I'm not the biggest fan of all the decisions that have been made over the past few seasons but I feel that regardless of what lawwell said yesterday, people would (rightly or wrongly) find fault with it.

We all look for scapegoats after defeats. The majority of folk are (in my opinion) rightly not rounding on the manager yet. So that frustration needs to be levelled at someone. Due to the anarchic nature of a sizable number of football fans, it's a logical process to turn on the guy who controls the purse strings and who himself gets a more than modest living from the club.

I don't know what the guy does, day in day out, but if we want to be a successful club on and off the pitch you need someone with a bit of business acumen and he seems to have that.

I have noticed a number of really emotive and impassioned posts here particularly since Tuesday. For those who lived through the 90s, there is a tacit understanding that although it's not fabulous at the minute, it's been worse. It may improve this season, and indeed before Tuesday I think there were many of us who could see green shoots of progress.

Maybe the perceived lack of funding that drove Lenny and Johan away was because the board were unhappy with the waste of money on players such as balde, big derk, pukki, murphy, and murphy. It's funny how for some celtic fans these problems are not lenny's for picking them, but that it was lawwell's for limiting him to certain amounts of cash.

I think, personally, he spoke as much truth about the financial state of the club as you'd comfortably want to be known by everyone.

Don't want to be seen to be the token fan who is seen to be taken in by the club's 'propaganda'. I just think we could all benefit from a little perspective. Lawwell is turning into a pantomime villain; an opinion which is peddled by some rather unhelpful ex celts in the media. It's fine to criticise, but I feel that the unrelenting criticism is a bit much.
Here's a little bit of perspective for you.

If we had actually strengthened the team ahead of either of the Champions League qualifiers with at least a proper striker, then we would have went through.

Instead we got pumped out twice.

So I think your essay supporting Lawwell is absolute shampooe.
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murphio
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Cisnox
30 Aug 2014, 11:17 AM
lennox11
30 Aug 2014, 01:14 AM
I think Lawwell is the easy target in all of this. I'm not the biggest fan of all the decisions that have been made over the past few seasons but I feel that regardless of what lawwell said yesterday, people would (rightly or wrongly) find fault with it.

We all look for scapegoats after defeats. The majority of folk are (in my opinion) rightly not rounding on the manager yet. So that frustration needs to be levelled at someone. Due to the anarchic nature of a sizable number of football fans, it's a logical process to turn on the guy who controls the purse strings and who himself gets a more than modest living from the club.

I don't know what the guy does, day in day out, but if we want to be a successful club on and off the pitch you need someone with a bit of business acumen and he seems to have that.

I have noticed a number of really emotive and impassioned posts here particularly since Tuesday. For those who lived through the 90s, there is a tacit understanding that although it's not fabulous at the minute, it's been worse. It may improve this season, and indeed before Tuesday I think there were many of us who could see green shoots of progress.

Maybe the perceived lack of funding that drove Lenny and Johan away was because the board were unhappy with the waste of money on players such as balde, big derk, pukki, murphy, and murphy. It's funny how for some celtic fans these problems are not lenny's for picking them, but that it was lawwell's for limiting him to certain amounts of cash.

I think, personally, he spoke as much truth about the financial state of the club as you'd comfortably want to be known by everyone.

Don't want to be seen to be the token fan who is seen to be taken in by the club's 'propaganda'. I just think we could all benefit from a little perspective. Lawwell is turning into a pantomime villain; an opinion which is peddled by some rather unhelpful ex celts in the media. It's fine to criticise, but I feel that the unrelenting criticism is a bit much.
Here's a little bit of perspective for you.

If we had actually strengthened the team ahead of either of the Champions League qualifiers with at least a proper striker, then we would have went through.

Instead we got pumped out twice.

So I think your essay supporting Lawwell is absolute shampooe.
Agreed. Earlier this year we posted a pre tax profit of 21m. Just think about that for a second. In the interim we have taken another 12m in sales and spent little or nothing. Some of you will swallow any old shampoo.
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westbelfastbhoy
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Sorry if I'm wrong here but is Lawwell saying we MUST sell our best players to keep the club afloat and to cover running Lennox town and other facilities ? Especially if we fail to reach the champs league like this year !
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westbelfastbhoy
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Lawwell mentioned Celtic spend every penny they bring in , and the accounts prove this, are these accounts available to the public ? And if yes has any Celtic minded accountant ever gone through them. Surely every penny has to be accounted for and if we do spend "every penny" then where does it go ? If not on players
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fatboab
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westbelfastbhoy
30 Aug 2014, 11:29 AM
Lawwell mentioned Celtic spend every penny they bring in , and the accounts prove this, are these accounts available to the public ? And if yes has any Celtic minded accountant ever gone through them. Surely every penny has to be accounted for and if we do spend "every penny" then where does it go ? If not on players
you do know we are a PLC, and our accounts are in the public domain? :rubeyes:

As for a Celtic minded accountant having a look at them, I'm actually lost for words... :lol:
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Marado
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Lawwell is defo the fall guy here but tbh I don't particularly like any of the ***** running Celtic right now.

As far as I know though he is the only one interfering in footballing matters and quite frankly it is this area that has seen the biggest drop in standards in recent years.
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jebus82
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if we are as honest peter says "spending what we bring in" why have we posted massive profits over the past 2 years? is profit not money you are left with? so where does the profit go?? :suspect:

if there was no profit we would be breaking even or losing money, so someone is telling porkies?
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lennox11
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murphio
30 Aug 2014, 11:24 AM
Cisnox
30 Aug 2014, 11:17 AM
lennox11
30 Aug 2014, 01:14 AM
I think Lawwell is the easy target in all of this. I'm not the biggest fan of all the decisions that have been made over the past few seasons but I feel that regardless of what lawwell said yesterday, people would (rightly or wrongly) find fault with it.

We all look for scapegoats after defeats. The majority of folk are (in my opinion) rightly not rounding on the manager yet. So that frustration needs to be levelled at someone. Due to the anarchic nature of a sizable number of football fans, it's a logical process to turn on the guy who controls the purse strings and who himself gets a more than modest living from the club.

I don't know what the guy does, day in day out, but if we want to be a successful club on and off the pitch you need someone with a bit of business acumen and he seems to have that.

I have noticed a number of really emotive and impassioned posts here particularly since Tuesday. For those who lived through the 90s, there is a tacit understanding that although it's not fabulous at the minute, it's been worse. It may improve this season, and indeed before Tuesday I think there were many of us who could see green shoots of progress.

Maybe the perceived lack of funding that drove Lenny and Johan away was because the board were unhappy with the waste of money on players such as balde, big derk, pukki, murphy, and murphy. It's funny how for some celtic fans these problems are not lenny's for picking them, but that it was lawwell's for limiting him to certain amounts of cash.

I think, personally, he spoke as much truth about the financial state of the club as you'd comfortably want to be known by everyone.

Don't want to be seen to be the token fan who is seen to be taken in by the club's 'propaganda'. I just think we could all benefit from a little perspective. Lawwell is turning into a pantomime villain; an opinion which is peddled by some rather unhelpful ex celts in the media. It's fine to criticise, but I feel that the unrelenting criticism is a bit much.
Here's a little bit of perspective for you.

If we had actually strengthened the team ahead of either of the Champions League qualifiers with at least a proper striker, then we would have went through.

Instead we got pumped out twice.

So I think your essay supporting Lawwell is absolute shampooe.
Agreed. Earlier this year we posted a pre tax profit of 21m. Just think about that for a second. In the interim we have taken another 12m in sales and spent little or nothing. Some of you will swallow any old shampoo.
A couple of times throughout my posts I was explaining that I'm not an advocator of everything Lawwell does as well as explaining that I too am unhappy that we didn't get anyone in before the Maribor game. I was simply offering a possible alternative explanation for this failure to get quality players in, instead of simply blaming Lawwell for this. I made the point that I don't believe that the situation is black and white, but for some on here it clearly is and that's alright, it may be. What drains the absolute life out of me is when someone can't post something that goes even a modicum against the generally accepted view that it's all Lawwell's fault by providing an alternative that MAY be closer to the truth. We spent around £3m on Pukki, £2m on Boerrigter, £1.5m on Balde last summer on attacking players. Was it Lawwell's fault that they've all been generally ineffective so far?
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The Poacher
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I dont think Lawwell was entirely truthful regarding a number of things but I was interested to hear what he & the custodians thinking was in terms of remedying our situation:
Quote:
 
What do people mean by downsizing?

Is there a communication going on here? I think what he hears is 'spend spend spend' - I think whats actually being said is 'what value are we getting for our money spent? By 'value' are we on the same page?'
Quote:
 
We are looking at our wage bill (maintaining it). We don’t have a title sponsor for the SPFL, the broadcasting deal is poor and on the way down. Our own fans, in terms of engagement (declining interest), are saying where is the competition?
Revenues are coming down (so we have a policy of selling) good players to fill that gap.

The best (and importantly the only visible) answer they have come up with is to sell players - there must be other options to pursue in addition to this but we are completely in the dark about their thinking on this. As he mentions himself Lawwells, Bankier & Desmonds plans for revenue streams have stayed the same in spite of their diminishing worth.

Quote:
 
Scottish players - We have looked at them. Somebody said Johnny Russell but he isn’t even in Gordon Strachan’s team. Stevie May, we looked at him but no and Andrew Robertson we had before and at £3m you can make your own decision on that.


'We' - who? The manager and who else, what other interface that separates the club from its cash? What sort of specifications do we have for this interface? How do we know this interface (Peter) are qualified to make valued judgements on player worth? We come back to the unspecified DoF role: simple question - is Lawwell qualified for the post? Most DoFs come from footballing backgrounds dont they? Is he, as Chief Exec, potentially compromised by his other responsibilities as a glorified financial director? Does what he gets paid to do (Pass Go collect £200) impinge what is put out on the park and if it does who decides where the balance should lie? Does he himself decide how much control he has?
And regarding his mentioning of Andrew Robertson - is he acknowledging we lost out on a potential £3M sale of a player that we didnt develop because he was too small?

Quote:
 
So if we stay in this current environment it will depends on how good we are at doing our jobs, ie finding good players, bringing them here and developing them and selling them on.


So who decides if you are not good are your job? You dont accept criticism from the support and we have no account of what your peers think of your performance.
From my own perspective on homegrown the McGeady sale was great business but the Andrew Robertsons are our bread and butter and those are the sort of transactions that over the course will determine how well those in charge of recruitment are doing. For every Wanyama we've had a Loovens or a Crosas, potential not realised - should we expect a bit more from this policy?

Quote:
 
Three years ago- 'Armageddon' the whole thing is going to fall apart. We have a strategy that is not dependent on any other club and we are independent. That strategy is what we are doing and part of that is to bring players here and sell them to make a profit.


So the strategy stays the same even if the circumstances dont?

Quote:
 
There is a colonisation of the game in Scotland by the English Premiership -that will happen more and more unless we do something about it.


What does he/ the custodians suggest we do? There has been nothing forthcoming about direction for the club, where we'll be, what we'll be in 10 years time - our current gameplan is to stay afloat, it is not to go anywhere. We become a feeder club, is that the plan?

Quote:
 
You either get on the bus (financial doping by broadcast money) or stay at the bus stop as others get on and leave you behind.

What does he actually mean by that? Is it still the expressed will of Desmond, Lawwell and Bankier to join English football, or is it something else? Do we expect UEFA do ensure media income is more fairly distributed? Are we involved in trying to enact change - change that I expect to come in some fashion?
Who knows?!
Who gets to ask the questions, who gets to challenge the logic of the answers? We are in the dark, at a crucial time and are being asked for our faith while told we have no concept of understanding about what to do.
Quote:
 
There are huge challenges there and my frustration is that we have done better trying to maintain a standard in a difficult environment and yet we are getting slaughtered for it.’

Are you above criticism?
Theres plenty on here who will think my ideas dont hold a drop of water *but* that doesnt detract from the apparent fact that the Chief Exec and the majority shareholder are beyond any kind of scrutiny - at least the kind of scrutiny the support would expect for those in charge, as well as be recognisably involved in.
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murphio
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lennox11
30 Aug 2014, 11:45 AM
murphio
30 Aug 2014, 11:24 AM
Cisnox
30 Aug 2014, 11:17 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Agreed. Earlier this year we posted a pre tax profit of 21m. Just think about that for a second. In the interim we have taken another 12m in sales and spent little or nothing. Some of you will swallow any old shampoo.
A couple of times throughout my posts I was explaining that I'm not an advocator of everything Lawwell does as well as explaining that I too am unhappy that we didn't get anyone in before the Maribor game. I was simply offering a possible alternative explanation for this failure to get quality players in, instead of simply blaming Lawwell for this. I made the point that I don't believe that the situation is black and white, but for some on here it clearly is and that's alright, it may be. What drains the absolute life out of me is when someone can't post something that goes even a modicum against the generally accepted view that it's all Lawwell's fault by providing an alternative that MAY be closer to the truth. We spent around £3m on Pukki, £2m on Boerrigter, £1.5m on Balde last summer on attacking players. Was it Lawwell's fault that they've all been generally ineffective so far?
He claimed we need to sell players to pay for the day to day running of the club and yet earlier this year we posted a pre tax profit for the half year of 21m. This follows another very healthy profit from the year. Now one way of putting that would be to say he is being economical with the truth. Another would be to say he is a lying bastard.
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