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Generic SPFL Thread; all the other stuff
Topic Started: 5 Apr 2014, 05:29 PM (152,734 Views)
idyllwild


Pussyfoot
4 Jun 2018, 05:43 PM
IainG
4 Jun 2018, 05:20 PM
Scotland's professional footballers have voted Hamilton Academical's pitch as the worst in the country.

PFA Survey.

What a shock!
Everyone has managed fine on grass here longer than any nation except England, again we're adopting winter sport nations philosophies when we in truth lay down the foundations, along with the English, for everything that had followed since, everywhere.

We need to stop adopting unnecessary and complicated ideas. A clear lack of innovation in-house matched by an inability to simplify where necessary.
An inability to simplify? Quite.
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Pussyfoot
À la mode if you will
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idyllwild
4 Jun 2018, 06:03 PM
Pussyfoot
4 Jun 2018, 05:43 PM
IainG
4 Jun 2018, 05:20 PM
Scotland's professional footballers have voted Hamilton Academical's pitch as the worst in the country.

PFA Survey.

What a shock!
Everyone has managed fine on grass here longer than any nation except England, again we're adopting winter sport nations philosophies when we in truth lay down the foundations, along with the English, for everything that had followed since, everywhere.

We need to stop adopting unnecessary and complicated ideas. A clear lack of innovation in-house matched by an inability to simplify where necessary.
An inability to simplify? Quite.
Plastic pitches are a complex area, the different qualities of surface allowed, players being left out of visiting sides fairly commonplace. We had a match abandoned in bad weather on one when their reason for being is surely to prevent that happening.

Just as examples of how the simple solution can confuse some, if these cheap, plastic surfaces are the way forward and correct why are players missing games due to risk etc. It's a competitive advantage even before the ball skids it's way on the park.
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Willie Wonka
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Slavery fled, oh glorious dead
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Stirling Albion win pitch of the year. Some top league clubs should be ashamed of their ploughed fields.
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cfc88
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Off treasure hunting in Holland
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giant_frying_pan
4 Jun 2018, 05:28 PM
IainG
4 Jun 2018, 05:20 PM
Scotland's professional footballers have voted Hamilton Academical's pitch as the worst in the country.

PFA Survey.

What a shock!
And Fir Park as the best.

Most improved, perhaps...
Deserved too. Pitch there has been very good last 2/3 years, mental to think how poor it used to be.
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Mickeybhoy84
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Living the dream
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Pussyfoot
4 Jun 2018, 06:30 PM
idyllwild
4 Jun 2018, 06:03 PM
Pussyfoot
4 Jun 2018, 05:43 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
An inability to simplify? Quite.
Plastic pitches are a complex area, the different qualities of surface allowed, players being left out of visiting sides fairly commonplace. We had a match abandoned in bad weather on one when their reason for being is surely to prevent that happening.

Just as examples of how the simple solution can confuse some, if these cheap, plastic surfaces are the way forward and correct why are players missing games due to risk etc. It's a competitive advantage even before the ball skids it's way on the park.
The companies that manufacture artificial pitches get FIFA to grade them. The grading they give out is heavily dependent on how full their brown envelope is.
Edited by Mickeybhoy84, 4 Jun 2018, 06:37 PM.
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Oscar Strummer
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cfc88
4 Jun 2018, 06:33 PM
giant_frying_pan
4 Jun 2018, 05:28 PM
IainG
4 Jun 2018, 05:20 PM
Scotland's professional footballers have voted Hamilton Academical's pitch as the worst in the country.

PFA Survey.

What a shock!
And Fir Park as the best.

Most improved, perhaps...
Deserved too. Pitch there has been very good last 2/3 years, mental to think how poor it used to be.

I played on it when it was at its absolute worst.

Pretty sure it was 2009/10.

An abomination of a pitch. It was like trying to play football on a sloping beach.

Even by the following season it was significantly improved.




Edited by Oscar Strummer, 4 Jun 2018, 06:39 PM.
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smudgethecat
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What team did u play for Oscar?
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Pussyfoot
À la mode if you will
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Mickeybhoy84
4 Jun 2018, 06:36 PM
Pussyfoot
4 Jun 2018, 06:30 PM
idyllwild
4 Jun 2018, 06:03 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Plastic pitches are a complex area, the different qualities of surface allowed, players being left out of visiting sides fairly commonplace. We had a match abandoned in bad weather on one when their reason for being is surely to prevent that happening.

Just as examples of how the simple solution can confuse some, if these cheap, plastic surfaces are the way forward and correct why are players missing games due to risk etc. It's a competitive advantage even before the ball skids it's way on the park.
The companies that manufacture artificial pitches get FIFA to grade them. The grading they give out is heavily dependent on how full their brown envelope is.
Well let's simplify that whole process and get rid of what's not working, they are an affront to the game and the players too apparently going with what's been mentioned in a post above.

Some matters are a can of worms and unpopular, the solution is simplify, go with what's wanted, attractive and has worked. Upgrade and innovate if something improves the game and cash is there, as we are doing for next season.

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Oscar Strummer
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smudgethecat
4 Jun 2018, 06:45 PM
What team did u play for Oscar?

Sadly we weren't wearing the hoops.

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Westsussexcelt
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The money that Celtic generate and is subsequently distributed to Scottish football (from their Champions league participation), could come with the proviso that it is spent on the playing surface. Perhaps n about 20 years we might then benefit from receipt of such a payment !
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k3vkr
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Westsussexcelt
5 Jun 2018, 04:20 AM
The money that Celtic generate and is subsequently distributed to Scottish football (from their Champions league participation), could come with the proviso that it is spent on the playing surface. Perhaps n about 20 years we might then benefit from receipt of such a payment !
Imagine telling a floof like Levein to sort his pitch out......

Never going to happen. They'd rather disadvantage us, than try and play better football
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TheScotsman
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Debate:
Does lack of variety (playing some teams 3-4 times, sometimes 7) affect the ability to attract and retain talent?
Or would a bigger league with trips to the likes of Brechin make it even less attractive?
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HenkesGhod
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TheScotsman
5 Jun 2018, 08:42 AM
Debate:
Does lack of variety (playing some teams 3-4 times, sometimes 7) affect the ability to attract and retain talent?
Or would a bigger league with trips to the likes of Brechin make it even less attractive?
A team top flight would only add the top 4 teams from the championship, so Brechin would remain a division below. If we use last season's premiership teams and add on the championship top 4 we'd have a top flight of:

Aberdeen
Celtic
Dundee
Dundee United
Dunfermline
Hamilton
Hearts
Hibernian
Kilmarnock
Livingstone
Motherwell
Partick Thistle
Rangers
Ross County
St. Johnstone
St. Mirren

with Inverness just missing out. The second Flight would then be

Airdrieonians
Albion Rovers
Alloa Athletic
Arbroath
Ayr United
Brechin
Dumbarton
East Fife
Falkirk
Forfar Athletic
Greenock Morton
Inverness CT
Queen's Park
Queen of the South
Raith Rovers
Stranraer

then existing league 2 and highland-lowland.

I think that under that system the top flight actually has a pretty good mix of teams, and the second tier has teams like Inverness, Morton, Falirk etc who can come up and challenge.
Edited by HenkesGhod, 5 Jun 2018, 08:56 AM.
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Forza
Considering retirement
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Pussyfoot
4 Jun 2018, 06:53 PM
Mickeybhoy84
4 Jun 2018, 06:36 PM
Pussyfoot
4 Jun 2018, 06:30 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
The companies that manufacture artificial pitches get FIFA to grade them. The grading they give out is heavily dependent on how full their brown envelope is.
Well let's simplify that whole process and get rid of what's not working, they are an affront to the game and the players too apparently going with what's been mentioned in a post above.

Some matters are a can of worms and unpopular, the solution is simplify, go with what's wanted, attractive and has worked. Upgrade and innovate if something improves the game and cash is there, as we are doing for next season.

These clubs have simplified it. The move to an artificial surface is financially driven. There is nothing more simple than putting something in place to help your bottom line.

Putting in a top notch natural grass Desso pitch with synthetic fibres, first class drainage, undersoil heating and artificial lighting rigs all costs a lot of money. Even if you don't go down the Desso route, it is still a considerable expense. Dundee have one of the best pitches in the League. Over the past couple of years that club has been run at a considerable loss. Motherwell have probably covered themselves from a financial loss with two cup final appearances.

To an English Premier League club or Celtic, this is small percentage of annual spend. To a club like Livingston or Hamilton, it is a massive outlay.

Thistle spent nearly £500,000 overhauling their pitch in 2016. Money well spent you might say. All it seemed to do was ensure stronger opposition teams knocked the ball about better on their surface and inflicted more defeats leading to them being relegated.

Everyone would like to see natural grass pitches across the league. But everyone would also like those pitches to be in good nick from December to March. Unless and until the financial conditions within the SPFL improve, this will continue.
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TheScotsman
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HenkesGhod
5 Jun 2018, 08:55 AM
TheScotsman
5 Jun 2018, 08:42 AM
Debate:
Does lack of variety (playing some teams 3-4 times, sometimes 7) affect the ability to attract and retain talent?
Or would a bigger league with trips to the likes of Brechin make it even less attractive?
A team top flight would only add the top 4 teams from the championship, so Brechin would remain a division below. If we use last season's premiership teams and add on the championship top 4 we'd have a top flight of:
Spoiler: click to toggle


I think that under that system the top flight actually has a pretty good mix of teams, and the second tier has teams like Inverness, Morton, Falirk etc who can come up and challenge.
Agreed, of the ones you added in it’s easy to forget which ones are premiership and which are championship teams
I’d be happy with that
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pieol
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TheScotsman
5 Jun 2018, 11:05 AM
HenkesGhod
5 Jun 2018, 08:55 AM
TheScotsman
5 Jun 2018, 08:42 AM
Debate:
Does lack of variety (playing some teams 3-4 times, sometimes 7) affect the ability to attract and retain talent?
Or would a bigger league with trips to the likes of Brechin make it even less attractive?
A team top flight would only add the top 4 teams from the championship, so Brechin would remain a division below. If we use last season's premiership teams and add on the championship top 4 we'd have a top flight of:
Spoiler: click to toggle


I think that under that system the top flight actually has a pretty good mix of teams, and the second tier has teams like Inverness, Morton, Falirk etc who can come up and challenge.
Agreed, of the ones you added in it’s easy to forget which ones are premiership and which are championship teams
I’d be happy with that
All you are doing with an expanded league is replacing 4 games with Ross County, with 2 games against County and 2 against Livingston. Great for the smaller clubs, no better for our team or fans. Aside from the "big five", there are perhaps 13-17 clubs on a relative even keel. Part of the attraction of the smaller league is that there is greater jeopardy whether it's trying to reach top six, avoid relegation or qualify for Europe or indeed when Celtic are going to win the league. Expanding the number of teams leads to more meaningless games earlier than just now.
My preference is for a qualifying process to earn a place in an 8 team Premiership. Borrowing from elsewhere it could be called the Super 8's. That means in the Premiership league having 4 matches against each of the other top 8 teams, giving 28 matches. The qualifying process would involve 24 teams in groups of 6 (preferably) or 4. This would give a total of 38 or 34 games.
Big advantage for Celtic would be less pressure domestically earlier in the season as the league qualifying should be straight forward. Gives us more time to concentrate on CL qualifying and hopefully group stages. Advantage for others is a more frequent chance of making the top tier and more frequent chance of matches against the bigger clubs.
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TheScotsman
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pieol
5 Jun 2018, 12:07 PM
TheScotsman
5 Jun 2018, 11:05 AM
HenkesGhod
5 Jun 2018, 08:55 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Spoiler: click to toggle


I think that under that system the top flight actually has a pretty good mix of teams, and the second tier has teams like Inverness, Morton, Falirk etc who can come up and challenge.
Agreed, of the ones you added in it’s easy to forget which ones are premiership and which are championship teams
I’d be happy with that
All you are doing with an expanded league is replacing 4 games with Ross County, with 2 games against County and 2 against Livingston. Great for the smaller clubs, no better for our team or fans. Aside from the "big five", there are perhaps 13-17 clubs on a relative even keel. Part of the attraction of the smaller league is that there is greater jeopardy whether it's trying to reach top six, avoid relegation or qualify for Europe or indeed when Celtic are going to win the league. Expanding the number of teams leads to more meaningless games earlier than just now.
My preference is for a qualifying process to earn a place in an 8 team Premiership. Borrowing from elsewhere it could be called the Super 8's. That means in the Premiership league having 4 matches against each of the other top 8 teams, giving 28 matches. The qualifying process would involve 24 teams in groups of 6 (preferably) or 4. This would give a total of 38 or 34 games.
Big advantage for Celtic would be less pressure domestically earlier in the season as the league qualifying should be straight forward. Gives us more time to concentrate on CL qualifying and hopefully group stages. Advantage for others is a more frequent chance of making the top tier and more frequent chance of matches against the bigger clubs.
Interesting, not seen this type of proposal before
So the top 2 of each group go through, how would the groups be organised?
How would the 4 groups of 6 be selected?
How would you satisfy the 4 Celtic Sevco TV requirements, by always keeping the two together in a group?
What incentive is there to do well in the group, a lot of effort spent and you go back to zero afterwards?
Where would the 4 losers go when they don’t make the final 8 league?

I like it but A serious flaw here is that Aberdeen’s, Hibs etc face the prospect of going from playing Celtic 4 times a season to twice a season and at worst zero, if they have a slip up in the first round, this surely makes it even less likely to be acceptable to them

An idea I’ve seen before that sounded appealing was where two upper divisions of 16 split into three x 8 halfway
The top league of 8 fights on for 1st place and Europe
The middle 8 jostle for position in next years divisions (ie top 4 are in premiership and bottom 4 in championship next year)
Bottom 8 try to avoid relegation
Thinking it though though, that’s 44 games

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Forza
Considering retirement
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TheScotsman
5 Jun 2018, 12:54 PM
pieol
5 Jun 2018, 12:07 PM
TheScotsman
5 Jun 2018, 11:05 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Spoiler: click to toggle
All you are doing with an expanded league is replacing 4 games with Ross County, with 2 games against County and 2 against Livingston. Great for the smaller clubs, no better for our team or fans. Aside from the "big five", there are perhaps 13-17 clubs on a relative even keel. Part of the attraction of the smaller league is that there is greater jeopardy whether it's trying to reach top six, avoid relegation or qualify for Europe or indeed when Celtic are going to win the league. Expanding the number of teams leads to more meaningless games earlier than just now.
My preference is for a qualifying process to earn a place in an 8 team Premiership. Borrowing from elsewhere it could be called the Super 8's. That means in the Premiership league having 4 matches against each of the other top 8 teams, giving 28 matches. The qualifying process would involve 24 teams in groups of 6 (preferably) or 4. This would give a total of 38 or 34 games.
Big advantage for Celtic would be less pressure domestically earlier in the season as the league qualifying should be straight forward. Gives us more time to concentrate on CL qualifying and hopefully group stages. Advantage for others is a more frequent chance of making the top tier and more frequent chance of matches against the bigger clubs.
Interesting, not seen this type of proposal before
So the top 2 of each group go through, how would the groups be organised?
How would the 4 groups of 6 be selected?
How would you satisfy the 4 Celtic Sevco TV requirements, by always keeping the two together in a group?
What incentive is there to do well in the group, a lot of effort spent and you go back to zero afterwards?
Where would the 4 losers go when they don’t make the final 8 league?

I like it but A serious flaw here is that Aberdeen’s, Hibs etc face the prospect of going from playing Celtic 4 times a season to twice a season and at worst zero, if they have a slip up in the first round, this surely makes it even less likely to be acceptable to them

An idea I’ve seen before that sounded appealing was where two upper divisions of 16 split into three x 8 halfway
The top league of 8 fights on for 1st place and Europe
The middle 8 jostle for position in next years divisions (ie top 4 are in premiership and bottom 4 in championship next year)
Bottom 8 try to avoid relegation
Thinking it though though, that’s 44 games

Two upper divisions of 16 becoming three leagues of 8? :ponder: What happens to the other 8 clubs? :lol:

By the way, apart from the premise that there are two leagues of 16 (it was actually two leagues of 12) this is exactly the SPL (as it was) proposal voted down by St Mirren and Ross County in early 2013 in acrimonious circumstances.

You can rule out any of this sort of stuff while the SPFL are trying to thrash out major TV and commercial rights deals. Potential partners want to know what they are buying. Certainty and stability in other words. That's why the newly formed SPFL put a moratorium on reconstruction talk for a few years after it was formed.
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duffsticks
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TheScotsman
5 Jun 2018, 12:54 PM
Thinking it though though, that’s 44 games

Indeed.

You could split a 16 team league into 4 mini-groups of 4 at half-way, then play home and away fixtures in each group from there. That gives you a 36 match fixture list which in theory maximises the excitement of the championship and relegation groups, and ensures that all meaningless fixtures are consigned to the two groups of absolute meh in between. It also guarantees you 4 Glasgow derbies (more or less).

Alternatively, you increase the Championship to 12 teams, and once both leagues have played 22 matches (i.e. everyone has played everyone else home and away) you take the 1-24 placings and split them into three leagues of eight. They then play home and away fixtures against each other to decide the final league placings.

Relegation/promotion is settled in that middle league, and the Championship title goes to the highest-finishing club that started the season in the Championship. That does guarantee you 4 Glasgow derbies a season, and means that the middle group actually has something to play for; in theory 4 Premiership sides could get relegated in one season. Again that comes back to 36 matches and means that all teams in theory have something to play for in the 14 post-split matches.

Below that, the entire thing should be regionalised. There's absolutely no point forcing sides from the Highlands to go down to Berwick, Ayr or D&G (and vice versa).
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Willie Wonka
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k3vkr
5 Jun 2018, 07:50 AM
Westsussexcelt
5 Jun 2018, 04:20 AM
The money that Celtic generate and is subsequently distributed to Scottish football (from their Champions league participation), could come with the proviso that it is spent on the playing surface. Perhaps n about 20 years we might then benefit from receipt of such a payment !
Imagine telling a floof like Levein to sort his pitch out......

Never going to happen. They'd rather disadvantage us, than try and play better football
Hertz are spending £1m on a hybrid pitch, doesn't mean they wont let it grow or overwater it at times though but that would just ruin it.
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