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Generic SPFL Thread; all the other stuff
Topic Started: 5 Apr 2014, 05:29 PM (152,771 Views)
Steviebhoy75
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Getting on a bit
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liger05
26 May 2014, 01:35 PM
They are keeping Butcher? How does that loser manage to keep his job.
Spoke to my mate earlier whose a Hibee, said there is no way Butcher is resigning and that its not his fault :ponder: :lol:

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Corky Buczek
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duffsticks
26 May 2014, 10:57 AM
Frankly I expect this to do much more for Hibs in the long run than survival would have.

They've got a new chief exec coming in, one with a track record of success and by all accounts a woman very prepared to drive change through the organisation. And boy do Hibs need someone like that.

They've got a big summer coming up. I fully expect Butcher to go, as part of the squad clear-out they desperately need. If Dempster is allowed to do her work unhindered, they've got a good chance of coming out the end of it as a team fit enough to challenge Hearts and Rangers for the Championship title.
Disagree

There is a total disconnect between board and fans resulting in that statement by Petrie. I suspect (not being a Hibee) that he has presided over possibly the worst 5 years in the club's history and some truly humiliating results - only the ownership of Gray & Duff and near take-over by Mercer was more traumatic.

As long as Petrie is there, the gap between those running the club and the fans will get ever wider. Petrie has brought in folk before and subsequently fallen out with them. Butcher should be sacked for taking that team down but it appear s that he is safe despite being totally outplayed by a Hamilton team that at least played the game in a half decent manner.

They will have to hope that Sevco go into administration and that other teams don't rise to the challenge. Hibs are in a complete mess.
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xbillups
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It's not like Hibs haven't tried to fix their problems by sacking managers before. Their players are, to a man, utterly shampooe and are a shower of spineless, bottling cowards - that's the main issue.
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Corky Buczek
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xbillups
26 May 2014, 01:59 PM
It's not like Hibs haven't tried to fix their problems by sacking managers before. Their players are, to a man, utterly shampooe and are a shower of spineless, bottling cowards - that's the main issue.
Did you watch the game yesterday. Did you see Butcher's tactics ?

Yep the players are not very good but going in and telling them that, saying that there needs to be a clear-out, then expecting those same people to go and out and play for you was amateurish management by Butcher.

He took over a team that wis mid table and got them relegated. He deserves his P-45 for that.
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xbillups
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Corky Buczek
26 May 2014, 02:07 PM
xbillups
26 May 2014, 01:59 PM
It's not like Hibs haven't tried to fix their problems by sacking managers before. Their players are, to a man, utterly shampooe and are a shower of spineless, bottling cowards - that's the main issue.
Did you watch the game yesterday. Did you see Butcher's tactics ?

Yep the players are not very good but going in and telling them that, saying that there needs to be a clear-out, then expecting those same people to go and out and play for you was amateurish management by Butcher.

He took over a team that wis mid table and got them relegated. He deserves his P-45 for that.
He may well have earned the sack but I don't see how anyone will turn that lot into a passable football team. They're a joke and this has been coming for some time now.
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pmaloy
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xbillups
26 May 2014, 02:10 PM
Corky Buczek
26 May 2014, 02:07 PM
xbillups
26 May 2014, 01:59 PM
It's not like Hibs haven't tried to fix their problems by sacking managers before. Their players are, to a man, utterly shampooe and are a shower of spineless, bottling cowards - that's the main issue.
Did you watch the game yesterday. Did you see Butcher's tactics ?

Yep the players are not very good but going in and telling them that, saying that there needs to be a clear-out, then expecting those same people to go and out and play for you was amateurish management by Butcher.

He took over a team that wis mid table and got them relegated. He deserves his P-45 for that.
He may well have earned the sack but I don't see how anyone will turn that lot into a passable football team. They're a joke and this has been coming for some time now.
Agree with this. This is bigger than Butcher's tactics - the club is a complete shambles. Complete loser mentality from top to bottom - owners, players, management and support. They are a perennial soft touch and have finally got what they deserve.

Oh and eff Pat Nevin

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Corky Buczek
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xbillups
26 May 2014, 02:10 PM
Corky Buczek
26 May 2014, 02:07 PM
xbillups
26 May 2014, 01:59 PM
It's not like Hibs haven't tried to fix their problems by sacking managers before. Their players are, to a man, utterly shampooe and are a shower of spineless, bottling cowards - that's the main issue.
Did you watch the game yesterday. Did you see Butcher's tactics ?

Yep the players are not very good but going in and telling them that, saying that there needs to be a clear-out, then expecting those same people to go and out and play for you was amateurish management by Butcher.

He took over a team that wis mid table and got them relegated. He deserves his P-45 for that.
He may well have earned the sack but I don't see how anyone will turn that lot into a passable football team. They're a joke and this has been coming for some time now.
Agree that they are a total joke.

Many of the players released today probably deserve it. But Butcher should go too and if Petrie had any humility he would have gone last night.
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samscafeamericain
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Butcher has a chance to build a team around that young lad Stanton, he looks a player. The one thing Butcher teams are is disciplined, Hibs were not. Butcher will make Hibs hard to beat next year and they remain an attractive option for a decent championship striker.
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Dapper Dan
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I don't see how sacking Butcher will help them any, they won't get anyone better at this point in time. The playing staff need a complete overhaul and hopefully for Hibs sake those that come in will have a better attitude towards training & playing for the club.
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Corky Buczek
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Dapper Dan
26 May 2014, 02:35 PM
I don't see how sacking Butcher will help them any, they won't get anyone better at this point in time. The playing staff need a complete overhaul and hopefully for Hibs sake those that come in will have a better attitude towards training & playing for the club.
A number of people are assuming that Butcher will just be able to assemble a new group of players and away he goes to the top of the Championship table.

He will not be just pick and choose the players he wants. He will have a limited budget - which will have shrank significantly over the past 24 hours. He will have a small pool to pick from which will increase doubts that he can turn the club around. The way that Hamilton played them off the park will have been noticed by all his opponents. Frankly his tactics yesterday made Graham Taylor's look like tiki-taka.

Hibs are in a complete mess. They are led by a total numpty in the boardroom who appears unwilling to accept any responsibility for his role over the past few years and a manager who took them from mid table to second bottom and lost a relegation playoff after winning the away leg 2-0.

The buck stops with them and they should both go.

Edited by Corky Buczek, 26 May 2014, 02:45 PM.
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arklys
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Butcher's a pumpkin but Hibs would be better just to stick with him. Get rid of effing everybody possible from the squad and rebuild completely. He had a successful team at Caley Thistle presumably on a nothing budget, I'm sure even in the Championship with Hibs he couldn't have a lot less.

The players he's got obviously won't work for him. They're pish anyway. Find some ***** who will.
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tinsoldier
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Corky Buczek
26 May 2014, 02:44 PM
Dapper Dan
26 May 2014, 02:35 PM
I don't see how sacking Butcher will help them any, they won't get anyone better at this point in time. The playing staff need a complete overhaul and hopefully for Hibs sake those that come in will have a better attitude towards training & playing for the club.
A number of people are assuming that Butcher will just be able to assemble a new group of players and away he goes to the top of the Championship table.

He will not be just pick and choose the players he wants. He will have a limited budget - which will have shrank significantly over the past 24 hours. He will have a small pool to pick from which will increase doubts that he can turn the club around. The way that Hamilton played them off the park will have been noticed by all his opponents. Frankly his tactics yesterday made Graham Taylor's look like tiki-taka.

Hibs are in a complete mess. They are led by a total numpty in the boardroom who appears unwilling to accept any responsibility for his role over the past few years and a manager who took them from mid table to second bottom and lost a relegation playoff after winning the away leg 2-0.

The buck stops with them and they should both go.

Spot on :thumbsup:
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duffsticks
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Corky Buczek
26 May 2014, 01:59 PM
Disagree

There is a total disconnect between board and fans resulting in that statement by Petrie. I suspect (not being a Hibee) that he has presided over possibly the worst 5 years in the club's history and some truly humiliating results - only the ownership of Gray & Duff and near take-over by Mercer was more traumatic.

As long as Petrie is there, the gap between those running the club and the fans will get ever wider. Petrie has brought in folk before and subsequently fallen out with them. Butcher should be sacked for taking that team down but it appear s that he is safe despite being totally outplayed by a Hamilton team that at least played the game in a half decent manner.

They will have to hope that Sevco go into administration and that other teams don't rise to the challenge. Hibs are in a complete mess.
I can't see Petrie coming back into the fold any time soon, though. He's specifically appointed someone with a reputation for operational excellence and even expressly referenced significant change to be expected over the summer. Further, he's never ditched a chief exec. He's only had one before, and he resigned. Dempster's appointment isn't quite new ground, but Petrie's apparent commitment to stepping back into a purely non-exec role is.

Petrie's been a disaster in his joint chairman/chief exec role, but his critical failure has been a failure of culture. Hibs as an organisation have been stagnant operationally and, barring Petrie's own infrastructure projects, have accepted average or even sub-standard performance in all aspects of their footballing operations. I can't see Dempster accepting that.

She has the opportunity to build an executive team of her own, and there will be significantly higher buy-in from the entire club than there would have been if they'd just missed relegation. I would anticipate her to focus on instilling a high-performance ethos within her exec, which will filter down through the rest of the organisation. She's already admitted there'll be a number of new initiatives over the summer, and that's just the public ones. I would expect her to go through the club like the proverbial dose of the salts.

Hibs have all the tell-tale signs of a complacent organisation, but there are no key structural issues holding them back and they have the capacity to field a relatively strong side from the off. In short, Hibs' failings are the easiest to fix out of the big 3 championship sides. Whether they can do that in a summer remains to be seen, but I would expect them to be back within a couple of seasons.
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MAH KA SHAUGH
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14 players released by Hibs and Liam Craig has been told to find himself another club.

Butcher will assemble a half decent team over the next 18 months IMO..
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Flinchy
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MAH KA SHAUGH
26 May 2014, 03:07 PM
14 players released by Hibs and Liam Craig has been told to find himself another club.

Butcher will assemble a half decent team over the next 18 months IMO..
Nice avatar :lol:
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Dapper Dan
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Corky Buczek
26 May 2014, 02:44 PM
Dapper Dan
26 May 2014, 02:35 PM
I don't see how sacking Butcher will help them any, they won't get anyone better at this point in time. The playing staff need a complete overhaul and hopefully for Hibs sake those that come in will have a better attitude towards training & playing for the club.
A number of people are assuming that Butcher will just be able to assemble a new group of players and away he goes to the top of the Championship table.

He will not be just pick and choose the players he wants. He will have a limited budget - which will have shrank significantly over the past 24 hours. He will have a small pool to pick from which will increase doubts that he can turn the club around. The way that Hamilton played them off the park will have been noticed by all his opponents. Frankly his tactics yesterday made Graham Taylor's look like tiki-taka.

Hibs are in a complete mess. They are led by a total numpty in the boardroom who appears unwilling to accept any responsibility for his role over the past few years and a manager who took them from mid table to second bottom and lost a relegation playoff after winning the away leg 2-0.

The buck stops with them and they should both go.

I'm not assuming that. I don't doubt for a second he will have a limited budget but he has a good track record in Scottish football and I think should be allowed the opportunity to revamp the squad and see if he can develop a team that will be competing at the top of the Championship. Undoubtedly any potential success with that will be reliant on those above him and maybe with the new chief exec coming in it will result in a fundamental change of structure throughout, not least including some cohesiveness between the manager and board in terms of transfers etc.
Edited by Dapper Dan, 26 May 2014, 03:19 PM.
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CM1975
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The culture that engulfs the players at Hibs is largely to blame IMO. John Collins tried to address it and wasn't given the backing, and the players won that battle.
To me it seems the recent batch of Hibs players are wannae be casual pin ups and don't appear to have any work ethic.
Butcher spotted this as soon as he arrived and called out the underachievers. This backfired when he overestimated the total lack of professional pride and bottle of the squad he inherited.
I think Hibs could do alot lot worse than sticking with Terry Butcher for the long haul.
Edited by CM1975, 26 May 2014, 03:21 PM.
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33-rpm
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tinsoldier
26 May 2014, 12:52 PM
In the most exciting league in the world (copyright every Sottish hack from now until it starts again), as well as Hearts Hibs and Rangers, there are those exponents of silky soccer Cowdenbeath, Raith Rovers, Alloa and Dumbarton.

It will be pish.
Guarantee the Sevco vs Hibs/Hearts weekend threads will generate more interest than the match thread with whoever we're playing that weekend. With Falkirk in there too it will be a more competitive league, if nothing else.

Still think Sevco will walk it, though. Unless the A bomb hits...
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Corky Buczek
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duffsticks
26 May 2014, 02:54 PM
Corky Buczek
26 May 2014, 01:59 PM
Disagree

There is a total disconnect between board and fans resulting in that statement by Petrie. I suspect (not being a Hibee) that he has presided over possibly the worst 5 years in the club's history and some truly humiliating results - only the ownership of Gray & Duff and near take-over by Mercer was more traumatic.

As long as Petrie is there, the gap between those running the club and the fans will get ever wider. Petrie has brought in folk before and subsequently fallen out with them. Butcher should be sacked for taking that team down but it appear s that he is safe despite being totally outplayed by a Hamilton team that at least played the game in a half decent manner.

They will have to hope that Sevco go into administration and that other teams don't rise to the challenge. Hibs are in a complete mess.
I can't see Petrie coming back into the fold any time soon, though. He's specifically appointed someone with a reputation for operational excellence and even expressly referenced significant change to be expected over the summer. Further, he's never ditched a chief exec. He's only had one before, and he resigned. Dempster's appointment isn't quite new ground, but Petrie's apparent commitment to stepping back into a purely non-exec role is.

Petrie's been a disaster in his joint chairman/chief exec role, but his critical failure has been a failure of culture. Hibs as an organisation have been stagnant operationally and, barring Petrie's own infrastructure projects, have accepted average or even sub-standard performance in all aspects of their footballing operations. I can't see Dempster accepting that.

She has the opportunity to build an executive team of her own, and there will be significantly higher buy-in from the entire club than there would have been if they'd just missed relegation. I would anticipate her to focus on instilling a high-performance ethos within her exec, which will filter down through the rest of the organisation. She's already admitted there'll be a number of new initiatives over the summer, and that's just the public ones. I would expect her to go through the club like the proverbial dose of the salts.

Hibs have all the tell-tale signs of a complacent organisation, but there are no key structural issues holding them back and they have the capacity to field a relatively strong side from the off. In short, Hibs' failings are the easiest to fix out of the big 3 championship sides. Whether they can do that in a summer remains to be seen, but I would expect them to be back within a couple of seasons.
Two things

Hibs fans are talking about boycotts as long as Petrie is there. He has to go. A war between the board and its supporters will hurt the club financially.

We will see if Petrie takes a step back. I doubt it. The honourable thing would have been to resign after last night. He didn't which suggests that he still foresees a role for himself at the club. You may well be correct about Dempster but relegation has made her job far far harder. Yep they have a good stadium and a training ground but I could point to a number of English clubs with great facilities, training grounds and academies who are miles away from the Premiership.

Butcher will have to rebuild the team from scratch over the summer with a support who will correctly cut him no slack. The way that he has managed this team really should send alarm bells across the Hibs support. I suspect that the opposition have figured out how to play him and yesterday he had no plan B. You say they should be back in a couple of seasons and thats just it. I suspect that they will face at least two seasons in the Championship and we will see Hearts and Sevco back in SPL before them. Given their structure that is shocking and as I said earlier Petrie and Butcher should lose their jobs for the position Hibs find themselves in today.
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Corky Buczek
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CM1975
26 May 2014, 03:20 PM
The culture that engulfs the players at Hibs is largely to blame IMO. John Collins tried to address it and wasn't given the backing, and the players won that battle.
To me it seems the recent batch of Hibs players are wannae be casual pin ups and don't appear to have any work ethic.
Butcher spotted this as soon as he arrived and called out the underachievers. This backfired when he overestimated the total lack of professional pride and bottle of the squad he inherited.
I think Hibs could do alot lot worse than sticking with Terry Butcher for the long haul.
They were totally outplayed yesterday by a Hamilton team that kept the ball on the deck and passed it.

Butcher resorted to the same kind of tactics that you saw in the late 80s and 90s of hoofing the ball into the comers etc. Hibs were an utter embarrassment. Butcher was shown up yesterday to be a relic from football's past. He will have lost any goodwill from the Hibs support and will struggle big time next season and he will have to assemble a team that isn't just difficult to beat but has to go and win games. The Pin put it far more eloquently than I can when describing how he plays the game

Managing Inverness is totally different from the level of expectation he will face next season. I doubt he will still be at Easter Road by late autumn.

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