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Celtic v Celtic; 2017/18 by comparison
Topic Started: 25 Aug 2012, 07:35 PM (229,059 Views)
Crossraguel
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Today's victory still leaves the class of 2012/13 languishing a couple of points adrift at the bottom of the table, 7 points off the optimum pace. Goals scored now tied last with 2006/07 and despite the goal difference doubling, it remains our worst over the period.

After Match 6
PWDLFAGDPts
Celtic 2000/0166001861218
Celtic 2010/1166001321118
Celtic 2007/08 65102231916
Celtic 2003/0465101621416
Celtic 2001/02 65101321116
Celtic 2004/05 65101551016
Celtic 2009/10 6510145916
Celtic 2002/03 65011531215
Celtic 2011/12 65011421215
Celtic 2005/066411168813
Celtic 2008/09 6411148613
Celtic 2006/076411115613
Celtic 2012/13 6321117411


Having now played 3 at home and 3 away, the trend of attendances is becoming more clear; the lowest cumulative and average home and away figures over the 13 seasons, yet to break through the 50k barrier at home and periolously close to the 40k barrier in downward trajectory.

Home Match Attendances 2000/01 - 2012/13
SeasonMatch 1Match 2Match 3TotalAverage
2000/0159,05758,05459,476176,58758,862
2001/0258,00558,42357,936174,36458,121
2002/0357,41556,90756,988171,31057,103
2003/0457,65857,16558,013172,83657,612
2004/0557,24558,93556,936173,11657,705
2005/0656,53257,78259,607173,92157,974
2006/0754,62056,57958,078169,27756,426
2007/0860,00057,30056,020173,32057,773
2008/0957,44156,03158,595172,06757,356
2009/1058,50058,50058,024175,02458,341
2010/1146,81249,02348,625144,46048,153
2011/1250,58952,06748,793151,44950,483
2012/1348,25145,86741,073135,19145,064


An immediate observation is the major dip between 2009/10 and 2010/11; the statistician in me wants to question the methodology of the count (absent season ticket holders included hitherto :ponder: ). Either way such a loss in revenue for the club would be marked and would certainly go some way to explain the very prudent attitude to spending in recent years.

Away Match Attendances 2000/01 - 2012/13
SeasonMatch 1Match 2 Match 3TotalAverage
2000/0111,76116,7449,49337,99812,666
2001/0213,20110,02414,70137,92612,642
2002/0317,8248,0538,44834,32511,442
2003/0410,0829,04510,64729,7749,925
2004/0510,5008,73613,50032,73610,912
2005/069,90349,6999,24468,84622,949
2006/0716,8227,33215,30439,45813,153
2007/086,32916,2327,84030,40110,134
2008/0911,6488,4078,11128,1669,389
2009/1016,80314,2216,16437,18812,396
2010/117,5479,2078,64525,3998,466
2011/1212,52312,4976,22331,24310,414
2012/136,1106,1006,70018,9106,303


Obviously our away fixtures are more affected by whom we are playing, and it would be fair to say Ross County, Inverness CT and St. Johnstone are likely to be the three lowest attendances anyway. Nonetheless there seems a clear downward trend in both home and away over the past 5+ years - a more fundamental commentary on Scottish football than the presence/absence of Rangers.
Edited by Crossraguel, 22 Sep 2012, 06:10 PM.
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hillhouse7
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very interesting thread! How feasible is it convert the absolute away attendances into a relative figure? Might make for an easier comparison (ie. (away supporters)/(away allocation)).

As for the change in average attendances in the first 3 games, statistically speaking, the drop is huge. I'd have some big concerns over that large a jump being a quirk, given the continuation of the trend. As you hinted, this is more than likely a result of some ST's being counted despite not being present in the period directly before the figures fall of the edge of a cliff!

Once again really good thread, and good on you taking the time to do this!
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BlackBeret
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Watching the highlights on BBC One.
Commentator had just said Celtic have had their worse start since Dr Jo in 1998
Is that correct?
Im sure Jansen had a poorer start with us losing two consecutive games (Hibs and Dunfermline) then a few draws? was Dr Jo's start as bad or worse?
BB
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remy mcswain
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BlackBeret
23 Sep 2012, 11:07 PM
Watching the highlights on BBC One.
Commentator had just said Celtic have had their worse start since Dr Jo in 1998
Is that correct?
Im sure Jansen had a poorer start with us losing two consecutive games (Hibs and Dunfermline) then a few draws? was Dr Jo's start as bad or worse?
BB
FACT
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Scotty_Bhoy_7
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vive le celtique
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eff Sportscene an all who sail in her!! :arrr:
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greenjedi
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Who cares? If we win our game in hand we go top of the SPl, so we can't be that bad!
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Wailer
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remy mcswain
23 Sep 2012, 11:09 PM
BlackBeret
23 Sep 2012, 11:07 PM
Watching the highlights on BBC One.
Commentator had just said Celtic have had their worse start since Dr Jo in 1998
Is that correct?
Im sure Jansen had a poorer start with us losing two consecutive games (Hibs and Dunfermline) then a few draws? was Dr Jo's start as bad or worse?
BB
FACT
That's it, i'm not going back. Pish.
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Otis B Driftwood
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BlackBeret
23 Sep 2012, 11:07 PM
Watching the highlights on BBC One.
Commentator had just said Celtic have had their worse start since Dr Jo in 1998
Is that correct?
Im sure Jansen had a poorer start with us losing two consecutive games (Hibs and Dunfermline) then a few draws? was Dr Jo's start as bad or worse?
BB
A wee hint: Wim the Tim became manager in 1997.
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19DannyBhoy67
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That Sportscene program is a joke.
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Glasgow Road
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.
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Otis B Driftwood
23 Sep 2012, 11:22 PM
BlackBeret
23 Sep 2012, 11:07 PM
Watching the highlights on BBC One.
Commentator had just said Celtic have had their worse start since Dr Jo in 1998
Is that correct?
Im sure Jansen had a poorer start with us losing two consecutive games (Hibs and Dunfermline) then a few draws? was Dr Jo's start as bad or worse?
BB
A wee hint: Wim the Tim became manager in 1997.
:lol:
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paulfg42
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So Mowbray effed us over in more ways than one?
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BlackBeret
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Otis B Driftwood
23 Sep 2012, 11:22 PM
BlackBeret
23 Sep 2012, 11:07 PM
Watching the highlights on BBC One.
Commentator had just said Celtic have had their worse start since Dr Jo in 1998
Is that correct?
Im sure Jansen had a poorer start with us losing two consecutive games (Hibs and Dunfermline) then a few draws? was Dr Jo's start as bad or worse?
BB
A wee hint: Wim the Tim became manager in 1997.
I know Wim became boss in 1997 just thought his start was poorer than that of 98
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moravcik67
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About to combine this thread with the 'Celtic v Celtic' thread pinned at the top of the page. :thumbsup:

But the BBC was almost right. After 5 games we were better off under Venglos, but only on goal difference. Same points. Under Jansen we lost the first two, but then won the next three. The last time we had a worse start after 5 games seems to be Brady's last season in 93/94, when our record was W1, D3, L1.
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Otis B Driftwood
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BlackBeret
23 Sep 2012, 11:27 PM
Otis B Driftwood
23 Sep 2012, 11:22 PM
BlackBeret
23 Sep 2012, 11:07 PM
Watching the highlights on BBC One.
Commentator had just said Celtic have had their worse start since Dr Jo in 1998
Is that correct?
Im sure Jansen had a poorer start with us losing two consecutive games (Hibs and Dunfermline) then a few draws? was Dr Jo's start as bad or worse?
BB
A wee hint: Wim the Tim became manager in 1997.
I know Wim became boss in 1997 just thought his start was poorer than that of 98
That would make the BBC statement wrong... how?
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Henrik The King
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Is the base data accurate? Celtic were definitely counting absent season ticket holders as present as far back as 2008. They've stopped doing it recently. Interesting thread cheers for the hard work. Will be interesting to see how attendances change over the course of the season.
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Colm
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Otis B Driftwood
24 Sep 2012, 12:03 AM
BlackBeret
23 Sep 2012, 11:27 PM
Otis B Driftwood
23 Sep 2012, 11:22 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
I know Wim became boss in 1997 just thought his start was poorer than that of 98
That would make the BBC statement wrong... how?
It wouldn't, but I think his point was that, if we had had a poorer start in 97 than in 98, they would probably have said that to better prove their point. I didn't see Sportscene, but I'm assuming their point was that we've had a poorer start to the season than we've had for many years; if so, it would make sense for them to go back to the last time we started a season so poorly to emphasise how badly we've started this year.
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AndyGaveUs
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And Paul McStay
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Colm
24 Sep 2012, 01:38 AM
Otis B Driftwood
24 Sep 2012, 12:03 AM
BlackBeret
23 Sep 2012, 11:27 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
That would make the BBC statement wrong... how?
It wouldn't, but I think his point was that, if we had had a poorer start in 97 than in 98, they would probably have said that to better prove their point. I didn't see Sportscene, but I'm assuming their point was that we've had a poorer start to the season than we've had for many years; if so, it would make sense for them to go back to the last time we started a season so poorly to emphasise how badly we've started this year.
Yup.

Dr Jo's era is largely seen as a joke, while we all know what happened in Jansen's...

That's why they're being fly with their stats.
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Crossraguel
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Back to where we belong at the top of the SPL, but still propping up the table compared with earlier seasons. Hopefully this is where some perspective can now come for the remainder of the season.

After Match 7
PWDLFAGDPts
Celtic 2000/0177002071321
Celtic 2010/1177001631321
Celtic 2003/0476101831519
Celtic 2001/02 76101721519
Celtic 2004/05 76101851319
Celtic 2002/03 76011631318
Celtic 2007/08 75112461816
Celtic 2005/067511178916
Celtic 2009/10 7511157816
Celtic 2008/09 75111710716
Celtic 2006/07 7511125716
Celtic 2011/12 75021661015
Celtic 2012/13 7421137614


Closed the gap to 1 point behind last season, still on the worst goal difference. Those missed chances today could have changed that somewhat.
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Crossraguel
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There was some discussion going into this match about how long it is since we played away at 3pm on a Saturday; this was the first at Fir Park since 2003. As well as compiling the attendances for these fixtures, I have included the day/time of the match for comparison.

Motherwell v Celtic Attendances
YearFirst MatchSecond Match
2000/0110,820

Sunday 18:50
X
2001/029,922

Saturday 17:35
10,134

Tuesday 19:45
2002/038,448

Tuesday 19:45
12,037

Wednesday 19:45
2003/0410,513

Sunday 15:00
7,749

Wednesday 19:45
2004/0510,592

Saturday 15:00
12,944

Sunday 14:00
2005/069,903

Saturday 12:30
11,503

Sunday 14:00
2006/079,769

Saturday 12:30
X
2007/089,771

Sunday 14:00
9,158

Saturday 12:30
2008/098,407

Saturday 12:30
8,593

Sunday 14:00
2009/107,807

Saturday 12:45
3 fixtures at Celtic Park
2010/119,207

Sunday 12:00
9,716

Sunday 12:45
2011/1210,440

Sunday 12:00
8,760

Sunday 14:00
2012/1310,496

Saturday 15:00


Today's was the largest attendance since January 2006, although the first fixture last season wasn't much less. There appears to have been the same general decrease since around that period as in Scottish football generally, so take your pick from 3pm on a Saturday or top of the table clash as the reason for today's higher crowd.

One thing that comes out of this is the impact of the TV on fixture times: you can see trends of peculiar KO time depending on the broadcasting firm(s) of the day.
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fatboab
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Crossraguel...

any chance of adding what League position we were in in each week of the season as it adds a bit perspective. Going top of the SPL today yet bottom of the Celtic v Celtic table is perhaps confirming that the SPL needs a strong Deid FC.
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