Quote:

 

£80 Million to spend , miss out on world class talent and fergie turns to a washed up kopite .

pablo5

3 Jul 2009, 03:07 AM

The problem I have is not that Real Madrid are spending money, it's that the big clubs have forced themselves into a position where they're so heavily in debt that for the smaller clubs to follow their lead (and they will) would be very dangerous.

It's not in the interests of the sport to let this continue unabated, but it's difficult to see what can be done. It will take one of the major clubs going bust to change anything IMO and even then it might not work.

pablo5

3 Jul 2009, 03:07 AM

The problem I have is not that Real Madrid are spending money, it's that the big clubs have forced themselves into a position where they're so heavily in debt that for the smaller clubs to follow their lead (and they will) would be very dangerous.

It's not in the interests of the sport to let this continue unabated, but it's difficult to see what can be done. It will take one of the major clubs going bust to change anything IMO and even then it might not work.

modest mouse

5 Jul 2009, 12:14 PM

pablo5

3 Jul 2009, 03:07 AM

The problem I have is not that Real Madrid are spending money, it's that the big clubs have forced themselves into a position where they're so heavily in debt that for the smaller clubs to follow their lead (and they will) would be very dangerous.

It's not in the interests of the sport to let this continue unabated, but it's difficult to see what can be done. It will take one of the major clubs going bust to change anything IMO and even then it might not work.

That's pretty much what happened in the premiership. You look at teams like Newcastle, Leeds and Southampton and you can see something similar, and there's probably others. Notwithstanding Newcastle and Leeds being bigger clubs, the point is that they've been forced into spending beyond their means in order to keep up with unrealistic expectations. The whole idea about the premiership being one of, if not the best league in the world, was that it was meant to be competitive and exciting. Now like most others you're finding that the same few teams dominate.

To be honest, I think the rest of Spain won't bother trying to keep up with that spending. Barcelona will spend but won't need to do so to the same extent, and I still believe they will win the league there next season. I certainly hope they do, because if Real won then Barca might end up forced down the same road of over spending. I think it would be better if Real were shown that it is not always about spending money.

Also, did anyone hear Graham Hunter on Radio Scotland yesterday? He made very interesting comments regarding Florentino Perez, including referring to a statement he made regarding champions league restructuring, whereby he wants to force UEFA to restructure so that the biggest clubs are playing each other every week. I doubt it would probably happen, but it gives an insight into the man's intentions, which according to Hunter, only have the bottom line and not football, at their heart.

The way I read that was that they would want to re-organise the top tier of European competition to exclude clubs such as ourselves, and similar, who tend to be the third/fourth pot in the champions league group, or come from smaller countries. I would also like to refer to those who argue we should ditch the rest of Scottish football, as this is a similar sort of attitude, albeit on a smaller scale. Where would we go, as it's clear the biggest clubs wouldn't be interested in us.

EDIT: just realised that's what the post above was alluding to as well.

idyllwild

5 Jul 2009, 01:43 PM

The day that John Terry chooses to leave a historically successful club like Chelsea, a club which has grown organically over the years, based on a huge faithful support... just to move to flash newboys Man City and £200,000 a week. That's when football dies for me. These clubs that have just appeared out of nowhere this summer and think they can buy success, eh, what are they like?

Poor Chelsea.

Football's dead to me.

Auldyin

5 Jul 2009, 01:14 PM

modest mouse

5 Jul 2009, 12:14 PM

pablo5

3 Jul 2009, 03:07 AM

The problem I have is not that Real Madrid are spending money, it's that the big clubs have forced themselves into a position where they're so heavily in debt that for the smaller clubs to follow their lead (and they will) would be very dangerous.

It's not in the interests of the sport to let this continue unabated, but it's difficult to see what can be done. It will take one of the major clubs going bust to change anything IMO and even then it might not work.

That's pretty much what happened in the premiership. You look at teams like Newcastle, Leeds and Southampton and you can see something similar, and there's probably others. Notwithstanding Newcastle and Leeds being bigger clubs, the point is that they've been forced into spending beyond their means in order to keep up with unrealistic expectations. The whole idea about the premiership being one of, if not the best league in the world, was that it was meant to be competitive and exciting. Now like most others you're finding that the same few teams dominate.

To be honest, I think the rest of Spain won't bother trying to keep up with that spending. Barcelona will spend but won't need to do so to the same extent, and I still believe they will win the league there next season. I certainly hope they do, because if Real won then Barca might end up forced down the same road of over spending. I think it would be better if Real were shown that it is not always about spending money.

Also, did anyone hear Graham Hunter on Radio Scotland yesterday? He made very interesting comments regarding Florentino Perez, including referring to a statement he made regarding champions league restructuring, whereby he wants to force UEFA to restructure so that the biggest clubs are playing each other every week. I doubt it would probably happen, but it gives an insight into the man's intentions, which according to Hunter, only have the bottom line and not football, at their heart.

The way I read that was that they would want to re-organise the top tier of European competition to exclude clubs such as ourselves, and similar, who tend to be the third/fourth pot in the champions league group, or come from smaller countries. I would also like to refer to those who argue we should ditch the rest of Scottish football, as this is a similar sort of attitude, albeit on a smaller scale. Where would we go, as it's clear the biggest clubs wouldn't be interested in us.

EDIT: just realised that's what the post above was alluding to as well.

Football as we have known it is at a crossroads. Is it a business or a sport?

The impact of being solely a business can be seen in the price of failure, in effect you go out of business or are no longer a serious competitor.
At the end of the day the busines only model depends on their being enough good players at a very high level to go around to form an elite league. Otherwise you end up with an elite amongst the elite. Have we got enough top players in the mould of the latest Real transfers to make a competitive Super League?

The alternative, the sporting basis,is that there is a leavening so that the elite players are spread throughout the game to produce a generally higher level. The only way that can happen is to limit the extreme business ethics that allow clubs to over either borrow to spend more than they can expect to recoup or use subsisdies to give them the edge.

At the moment the football authorities are responsible for governing the game, if they want to retain that authority to govern then they had better start to do it.
They will have to stand up to the elite, which includes the risk of the elite breaking away, or they will lose whatever authority they do have.

modest mouse

5 Jul 2009, 02:10 PM

Auldyin

5 Jul 2009, 01:14 PM

modest mouse

5 Jul 2009, 12:14 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep

Football as we have known it is at a crossroads. Is it a business or a sport?

The impact of being solely a business can be seen in the price of failure, in effect you go out of business or are no longer a serious competitor.
At the end of the day the busines only model depends on their being enough good players at a very high level to go around to form an elite league. Otherwise you end up with an elite amongst the elite. Have we got enough top players in the mould of the latest Real transfers to make a competitive Super League?

The alternative, the sporting basis,is that there is a leavening so that the elite players are spread throughout the game to produce a generally higher level. The only way that can happen is to limit the extreme business ethics that allow clubs to over either borrow to spend more than they can expect to recoup or use subsisdies to give them the edge.

At the moment the football authorities are responsible for governing the game, if they want to retain that authority to govern then they had better start to do it.
They will have to stand up to the elite, which includes the risk of the elite breaking away, or they will lose whatever authority they do have.

I would think their current strategy is one of accommodation, whereby they give in to a certain number of demands so as to keep them happy and avoid any greater discontentment. I think this is the correct one to be honest, as it has given birth to the present day champions league, which gives chances for the very biggest clubs to compete against each other regularly, whilst clubs from smaller countries can also get into the group stages and even the last 16. Last season's champions league had clubs from Cyprus and Belarus for example, so for all people say it is weighted in favour of the big five (which it is) smaller teams can still join in the party.

The alternative some of these bigger clubs want I'd guess is a closed shop, where they just compete with each other. They should realise that this is a mistake for the long term future of football. You must allow for smaller clubs to progress upwards and for larger clubs who become uncompetitive to be able to drop down and be replaced. This provides a certain freshness in the game, which it thankfully still retains to an extent. I don't think they need to outright challenge the big clubs, but they certainly do need to make sure they don't try and destroy football for the rest of us, by being firm with the principal that sporting competition must take precedence over business. They can co-exist to en extent, but competition must not be compromised.

idyllwild

5 Jul 2009, 01:43 PM

The day that John Terry chooses to leave a historically successful club like Chelsea, a club which has grown organically over the years, based on a huge faithful support... just to move to flash newboys Man City and £200,000 a week. That's when football dies for me. These clubs that have just appeared out of nowhere this summer and think they can buy success, eh, what are they like?

Poor Chelsea.

Football's dead to me.

idyllwild

5 Jul 2009, 01:43 PM

The day that John Terry chooses to leave a historically successful club like Chelsea, a club which has grown organically over the years, based on a huge faithful support... just to move to flash newboys Man City and £200,000 a week. That's when football dies for me. These clubs that have just appeared out of nowhere this summer and think they can buy success, eh, what are they like?

Poor Chelsea.

Football's dead to me.

idyllwild

5 Jul 2009, 01:43 PM

The day that John Terry chooses to leave a historically successful club like Chelsea, a club which has grown organically over the years, based on a huge faithful support... just to move to flash newboys Man City and £200,000 a week. That's when football dies for me. These clubs that have just appeared out of nowhere this summer and think they can buy success, eh, what are they like?

Poor Chelsea.

Football's dead to me.

idyllwild

5 Jul 2009, 01:43 PM

The day that John Terry chooses to leave a historically successful club like Chelsea, a club which has grown organically over the years, based on a huge faithful support... just to move to flash newboys Man City and £200,000 a week. That's when football dies for me. These clubs that have just appeared out of nowhere this summer and think they can buy success, eh, what are they like?

Poor Chelsea.

Football's dead to me.