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| Our weakness; Is it really where we think it is? | |
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| Topic Started: 1 Feb 2009, 01:22 PM (1,523 Views) | |
| randombloke | 1 Feb 2009, 01:22 PM Post #1 |
Considering retirement
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I may be jumping the gun a wee bit by starting this topic before the transfer window shuts (although hopefully not by starting it before today's game  ), but some of the comments on the various transfer related threads have got me questioning the orthodox view that left-back is the area we most desperately need to strengthen.Now it seems faily obvious that Naylor is the first team regular who look least up to the job of playing for Celtic, and that it is the area where we have the least natural cover...but does that necessarily make it our biggest priority? We've lived with it this long (as somebody pointed out the other day, you'd be looking back to Tam Boyd in his prime for our last good natural left-back), and looking back over this season's draws and defeats I can't really recall any where it is weakness in the left-back position that has been the deciding factor. Dundee Utd (A) 1-1 (Sandaza) Can’t remember anything about this game TBH….and I wasn’t even drunk at the time  .Der Hun (H) 2-4 (Cooserse, Miller(x2), Mendes) Central defence getting bullied by Cooserse, mistakes by Boruc and inept defending of a corner for the Mendes goal. Aalborg (H) 0-0 Forwards not taking chances, Robson misses penalty. Don’t recall them giving our defence any real problems in this game. Villareal (A) 1-0 (Senna) Samaras fluffed the one good chance we had in the game, we were beaten by a cracker of a free-kick. Man Utd (A) 3-0 (Berbatov(x2), Rooney) Totally outclassed all over the pitch. Man Utd (H) 1-1 (Giggs) Good performance, defended well and limited their chances, but Giggs was sharp enough to be first to a shot Boruc could only parry. Aalborg (A) 2-1 (Caca, CaldwellOG) Collective bottle crash IMO. Hibs (A) 2-0 (Rankin, Nish) FFS Artur Hertz (H) 1-1 (Driver) IIRC it was the right-hand side of our defence that was exposed for Driver’s goal? But regardless, the biggest sinners that day were our striker for not putting away their chances, and our creative midfielders for not providing more ammunition. Dundee Utd (H) 2-2 (Dixon, Feeney) Good first half performance where we should have buried them. Complete collapse in the second, and possibly our worst collective performance since Artmedia. Aberdeen (A) 4-2 (McDonald, Duff, Diamond (x2)) Inability to defend set-pieces. Dundee Utd (N) 0-0 (aet, Celtic win 11-10 on penalties) Limited chances due to an awful pitch and our midfield 4 being smothered by Utd’s 5. Admittedly my ability to recall past games (even recent ones) isn't the best, so if I've got any of those woefully wrong then please correct me. But it seems to me that the things that have hurt us most this season in the games we could and should have won have been mistakes from Boruc (hopefully just a temporary blip in form  ), forwards not converting chances and killing the game when we have the chance, and our midfield's occasional difficulties in dominating opposition who pack the middle of the pitch.Don't get me wrong, there have been games where Naylor or his deputies have been poor, and we certainly have conceded a few goals from that side of the pitch - but we seem to get away with that as long as the midfield and forwards are creating and putting away chances, which they haven't done consistently this year. So, anyhoo, that was a long and probably unecessary ramble just to get back to the original question - is left-back really that big a priority or can we get more benefit from improving our midfield and forward options to ensure the game is won before the opposition even get to test our defence? |
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| nowonder | 1 Feb 2009, 01:25 PM Post #2 |
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Getting on a bit
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You're right.Us fans don't like Naylor,99 out of a 100 managers would look to increase the striking options in the short term if they had the choice. |
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| arabba11 | 1 Feb 2009, 01:26 PM Post #3 |
Everyone's Fantasy Football first pick
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i actually totally agree with you
Edited by fatboab, 1 Feb 2009, 01:31 PM.
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| Rymo | 1 Feb 2009, 01:28 PM Post #4 |
First name on the team-sheet
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Our weakness is that we have a team made up mostly of players who are at best mid table SPL team quality. |
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| Annoni's Magic Gloves | 1 Feb 2009, 01:31 PM Post #5 |
More perfect, but less worthwhile
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And yet we're top. Hmm... |
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| fatboab | 1 Feb 2009, 01:33 PM Post #6 |
Monster? Nah...Driver and a 5 Iron.
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Lee Naylor is a complete and utter liability, and his effect on our back four as a unit cannot be underestimated. Any team with any savvy merely play long balls into this area and usually get a lot of success. He should never have been a Celtic player and the sooner we get rid of him the better. He may be the worst player I've ever seen in the Hoops. ( a worthy post No. 23,000) |
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| samscafeamericain | 1 Feb 2009, 01:33 PM Post #7 |
First-team captain
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The point you are missing with regard to defensive issues is balance. If the balance of the back 4 is wrong is fails to operate as well as it should. A weak full back means the centre is always looking to drift over and cover, a poor centre means full backs needing to tuck in more than normal. |
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| IainG | 1 Feb 2009, 01:35 PM Post #8 |
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Off treasure hunting in Holland
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Then WGS must get great credit for keeping them at the top of the league. No? |
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| IainG | 1 Feb 2009, 01:36 PM Post #9 |
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Off treasure hunting in Holland
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I thought the consensus here was Chris Killen? 
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| Annoni's Magic Gloves | 1 Feb 2009, 01:36 PM Post #10 |
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More perfect, but less worthwhile
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Exactly - the back 4 needs to be a unit. It's been no coincidence IMO that since we signed Hinkel, Caldwell's form has improved dramatically. The same might be true for McManus, if we get a proper left back. |
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| Aidenho | 1 Feb 2009, 01:36 PM Post #11 |
Don't Tread On Me
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Bring Back Riordan 
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| fatboab | 1 Feb 2009, 01:36 PM Post #12 |
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Monster? Nah...Driver and a 5 Iron.
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exactly...it's no co-incidence that Stephen McManus has suffered a lapse in form..he has to cover two positions every time Naylor plays. |
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| _7_ | 1 Feb 2009, 01:39 PM Post #13 |
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First-team captain
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We are the exact oppisite of MON's team, which had a strong spine (apart from the keeper) and wide players were very much just there to a job. This Celtic side has a good keeper (hopefully he's turned the corner now for all our sakes) weak central defense, has never had a strong central midfield since petrov and lennon and doesn't have a physical striker upfront to bring others into the play. while the wide players such as naka, mcgeady, maloney are the last 3 winners of player of the year in scotland and their quality that often digs us out a hole. |
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| huddler | 1 Feb 2009, 01:40 PM Post #14 |
Just win, Celtic. Just win.
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Bullseye. 
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| randombloke | 1 Feb 2009, 01:40 PM Post #15 |
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Considering retirement
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I understand that perfectly....the question was really one of where we should spend the limited cash we have available - improving our forwards to make sure we win even when we are leaking goals, improving our midfield to ensure we dominate games and don't allow the opposition the chance to get at our defence, or buy a decent left-back and shore up the defence. My point was that (for domestic games at least) we could spend that money on the defence, but fail to reap any benefits in tems of extra points and trophies if the midfield and forwards are still having regular "off-days" |
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| BeastieBhoy | 1 Feb 2009, 01:40 PM Post #16 |
Getting on a bit
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Did Wilson not have a mare at LB in the huns game? 
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| fatboab | 1 Feb 2009, 01:41 PM Post #17 |
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Monster? Nah...Driver and a 5 Iron.
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Mon's team had two regular weak spots. Keeper and left back. If he had been able to address those, who knows where it might have taken us. |
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| CreepingD | 1 Feb 2009, 01:41 PM Post #18 |
Occasional Substitute
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I personally think looking at it in this kind of detail is slightly misleading. Focusing on each of the games 'flashpoints', for want of a better word, does not completely highlight the problem. With the system that Strachan plays (which is another issue) you need production from your full backs. When Naka gets clogged up on the right, he can drift inside, knowing Hinkel will be outside. He can also hold it up, knowing again his full back will provide support. When it gets to McGeady, Naylor is often either miles behind, not moving enough to offer the support or there is a good chance that McGeady realises he's not good enough to give the ball to, just like I think! Also, when the ball is played around the back, and goes to Naylor, you KNOW the next noise will be HUUUUMPF as it is aimlessly punted up the park, thus destroying any chance of prodding passes to try and get the opposing defence to come out. To work the system Strachan plays we HAVE to be able to pass the ball around, from the back, through the middle and get Naka and McGeady on the ball high up the pitch, then give them support from the full backs. Naylor just cannot do this and Wilson will try but is hampered by being on the wrong side. It is not all about Naylor either. Wilson, as much as I think he is a great player, is right footed. You get similar problems when he is out there. No proper width, passes coming in from his right foot which is not as conductive to good wing play. Although we are a better team with him then Naylor. What I am saying is in the course of an entire game, the poor to dreadful play of our left back leaves our attacking players having to either work harder, or do things that are not good for the current system. And that does not even go into the defensive side, where if your centre backs have no confidence in the full back, they end up covering too wide. There was a moment recently, cannae mind the game, when I was screaming at McManus being so far away from the striker I thought he should be marking. Only on the replays did I notice that Naylor was halfway up the pitch, wandering about as if lost, and McManus had to come out wide to cover the man Naylor had just ignored. This left a gap in the middle and Caldwell having to cover 2 strikers. That is one instance, but I do believe it happens a lot more. While we could, and probably should, look to improve on the striking options as well, I firmly believe that a serious upgrade on left back will improve our attacking play as well as our defensive problems. |
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| lenobhoy | 1 Feb 2009, 01:41 PM Post #19 |
rubber dinghy rapids
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Left back is a HUGE priority, given that we only have one on our books. The fact that the one we have is not very good compounds matters. We could have the best left back in the world but not to have decent competition for that position or to continually play a player out of position is still poor. Sure we have lost a lot of goals that have not been the fault of Naylor's but he still unbalances the side to such an extent that players have to continually cover for him. He is such a weak link that everyone knows it and opposition teams will continue to exploit it. |
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| elliot the tim | 1 Feb 2009, 01:41 PM Post #20 |
parrrrrrrrrrtay !!
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He didn't look as bad as this last season FB , when Naylor was just as bad, so although a problem I think it may be a bit more complexed than just having to cover for Naylor
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