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The state of Scottish football
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Topic Started: 26 Jun 2018, 10:28 AM (9,100 Views)
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Forza
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2 Jul 2018, 01:20 PM
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An often overlooked issue for Scotland at international level will likely be shown today or tomorrow when Dylan McGeouch signs for Sunderland, as expected. A player who most recently got international recognition due to good club form for Hibs, opting to play in England's third tier.
Hibs will play in Europe, albeit likely two rounds tops, and come up against other clubs who will play in Europe, as well play in big derby games. Going on League One odds, Sunderland's big games next season look like they'll come against Barnsley, Charlton and Scarrothorpe.
We do encourage players in Scotland to go and experience football at as high a level as they can, and in some cases over the years it has worked out well. In the modern era though, the success rate is much lower.
Sunderland are a bigger club than anything outside Celtic and Sevco, and I have no doubt McGeouch is accepting the best financial offer available to him, when he has perhaps two major playing contracts left to sign in his career. They may also win League One at a canter and get back to something like a decent level in the Championship.
However it does strike me that there is zero ambition in such a move, or zero emphasis on non-financial career prospects. English lower league football is a minimum 46 game slog, with very few free midweeks to coach technique or advance better tactics. The emphasis is on a formulaic physical and direct approach to the game that will do McGeouch no favours at all, like many before him.
It's not just things like this, it's also situations like Feruz at youth level. Scott Allan to a hopeless Rotherham team. Stevie Mallan and Liam Lindsay to an inevitably doomed Barnsley. Good moves financially, bad moves by virtually every other measure, including for the international team. It also serves to weaken the SPFL.
Players can often get caught up in hype from even lower Championship teams downwards. It needs to stop being viewed as some sort of Holy Grail when the reality is it is an average standard offering above average financial security.
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pedrok
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2 Jul 2018, 01:53 PM
Post #142
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- Forza
- 2 Jul 2018, 01:20 PM
An often overlooked issue for Scotland at international level will likely be shown today or tomorrow when Dylan McGeouch signs for Sunderland, as expected. A player who most recently got international recognition due to good club form for Hibs, opting to play in England's third tier.
Hibs will play in Europe, albeit likely two rounds tops, and come up against other clubs who will play in Europe, as well play in big derby games. Going on League One odds, Sunderland's big games next season look like they'll come against Barnsley, Charlton and Scarrothorpe.
We do encourage players in Scotland to go and experience football at as high a level as they can, and in some cases over the years it has worked out well. In the modern era though, the success rate is much lower.
Sunderland are a bigger club than anything outside Celtic and Sevco, and I have no doubt McGeouch is accepting the best financial offer available to him, when he has perhaps two major playing contracts left to sign in his career. They may also win League One at a canter and get back to something like a decent level in the Championship.
However it does strike me that there is zero ambition in such a move, or zero emphasis on non-financial career prospects. English lower league football is a minimum 46 game slog, with very few free midweeks to coach technique or advance better tactics. The emphasis is on a formulaic physical and direct approach to the game that will do McGeouch no favours at all, like many before him.
It's not just things like this, it's also situations like Feruz at youth level. Scott Allan to a hopeless Rotherham team. Stevie Mallan and Liam Lindsay to an inevitably doomed Barnsley. Good moves financially, bad moves by virtually every other measure, including for the international team. It also serves to weaken the SPFL.
Players can often get caught up in hype from even lower Championship teams downwards. It needs to stop being viewed as some sort of Holy Grail when the reality is it is an average standard offering above average financial security.
Something I mentioned earlier on is the lack of Scottish players that go abroad. You look at these small/mid sized nations at the world cup, full of players that play outside their own nation (and I include the UK as being the nation here).
Surely someone could have taken a look at a player like McGeouch and tried to get him a move abroad? I imagine the problem he may have is that he might have a young family, and the thought of moving abroad would be too much. But surely we should be looking to move young players abroad, rather than the reserve teams of lower Championship/First Division English teams!
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One sharp cookie
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2 Jul 2018, 02:00 PM
Post #143
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- pedrok
- 2 Jul 2018, 01:53 PM
- Forza
- 2 Jul 2018, 01:20 PM
An often overlooked issue for Scotland at international level will likely be shown today or tomorrow when Dylan McGeouch signs for Sunderland, as expected. A player who most recently got international recognition due to good club form for Hibs, opting to play in England's third tier.
Hibs will play in Europe, albeit likely two rounds tops, and come up against other clubs who will play in Europe, as well play in big derby games. Going on League One odds, Sunderland's big games next season look like they'll come against Barnsley, Charlton and Scarrothorpe.
We do encourage players in Scotland to go and experience football at as high a level as they can, and in some cases over the years it has worked out well. In the modern era though, the success rate is much lower.
Sunderland are a bigger club than anything outside Celtic and Sevco, and I have no doubt McGeouch is accepting the best financial offer available to him, when he has perhaps two major playing contracts left to sign in his career. They may also win League One at a canter and get back to something like a decent level in the Championship.
However it does strike me that there is zero ambition in such a move, or zero emphasis on non-financial career prospects. English lower league football is a minimum 46 game slog, with very few free midweeks to coach technique or advance better tactics. The emphasis is on a formulaic physical and direct approach to the game that will do McGeouch no favours at all, like many before him.
It's not just things like this, it's also situations like Feruz at youth level. Scott Allan to a hopeless Rotherham team. Stevie Mallan and Liam Lindsay to an inevitably doomed Barnsley. Good moves financially, bad moves by virtually every other measure, including for the international team. It also serves to weaken the SPFL.
Players can often get caught up in hype from even lower Championship teams downwards. It needs to stop being viewed as some sort of Holy Grail when the reality is it is an average standard offering above average financial security.
Something I mentioned earlier on is the lack of Scottish players that go abroad. You look at these small/mid sized nations at the world cup, full of players that play outside their own nation (and I include the UK as being the nation here). Surely someone could have taken a look at a player like McGeouch and tried to get him a move abroad? I imagine the problem he may have is that he might have a young family, and the thought of moving abroad would be too much. But surely we should be looking to move young players abroad, rather than the reserve teams of lower Championship/First Division English teams! Agree with this. But, like spending other people’s money, it’s always easier to tell other people who they should be playing for. If I was McGeouch and a Scottish manager of a big English club based just 100 miles or so down the road was offering me a fortune to come and join him, would I instead take my chances on a left field move to, say, the Czech Republic or Turkey? Almost certainly not.
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SaMule
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2 Jul 2018, 02:03 PM
Post #144
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- pedrok
- 2 Jul 2018, 01:53 PM
- Forza
- 2 Jul 2018, 01:20 PM
An often overlooked issue for Scotland at international level will likely be shown today or tomorrow when Dylan McGeouch signs for Sunderland, as expected. A player who most recently got international recognition due to good club form for Hibs, opting to play in England's third tier.
Hibs will play in Europe, albeit likely two rounds tops, and come up against other clubs who will play in Europe, as well play in big derby games. Going on League One odds, Sunderland's big games next season look like they'll come against Barnsley, Charlton and Scarrothorpe.
We do encourage players in Scotland to go and experience football at as high a level as they can, and in some cases over the years it has worked out well. In the modern era though, the success rate is much lower.
Sunderland are a bigger club than anything outside Celtic and Sevco, and I have no doubt McGeouch is accepting the best financial offer available to him, when he has perhaps two major playing contracts left to sign in his career. They may also win League One at a canter and get back to something like a decent level in the Championship.
However it does strike me that there is zero ambition in such a move, or zero emphasis on non-financial career prospects. English lower league football is a minimum 46 game slog, with very few free midweeks to coach technique or advance better tactics. The emphasis is on a formulaic physical and direct approach to the game that will do McGeouch no favours at all, like many before him.
It's not just things like this, it's also situations like Feruz at youth level. Scott Allan to a hopeless Rotherham team. Stevie Mallan and Liam Lindsay to an inevitably doomed Barnsley. Good moves financially, bad moves by virtually every other measure, including for the international team. It also serves to weaken the SPFL.
Players can often get caught up in hype from even lower Championship teams downwards. It needs to stop being viewed as some sort of Holy Grail when the reality is it is an average standard offering above average financial security.
Something I mentioned earlier on is the lack of Scottish players that go abroad. You look at these small/mid sized nations at the world cup, full of players that play outside their own nation (and I include the UK as being the nation here). Surely someone could have taken a look at a player like McGeouch and tried to get him a move abroad? I imagine the problem he may have is that he might have a young family, and the thought of moving abroad would be too much. But surely we should be looking to move young players abroad, rather than the reserve teams of lower Championship/First Division English teams! Barry Douglas certainly seems to have benefitted from his travels. Was apparently very good for Wolves last season, according to folk I know who watch that league. Liam Henderson seems to be doing well in Italy too.
Problem is that foreign teams (outwith the obvious CL contenders) rarely pay anything like as much as English teams do, because a) the English teams are swimming in money and b) you'd want a fair wedge to choose living in the likes of Sunderland and Huddersfield over living in say Copenhagen or Florence. There's also the language factor, given that your average Scottish footballer probably isn't going to grow up thinking that he needs to learn a foreign language to get by in life.
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Corky Buczek
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2 Jul 2018, 02:18 PM
Post #145
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- vlad
- 28 Jun 2018, 10:36 AM
"Alex Ferguson doesn't want the job after the World Cup, how about we give that Roxborough guy a go, good with kids apparently. Him and his pal Brown would do as they're told and make sure shirts are tucked in, socks pulled up."
After that memo , we were effed. Ally Macleod was allowed to stay in a job despite kids collecting football stickers knowing more about Peru in 78 than the Scotland players on the pitch in Cordoba.
In terms of the national team, our inability to fire the manager when its quite clear that the team is going nowhere under the particular set up has not helped us when it comes to qualifying for tournaments. See Brown (who should have been dispatched after Henri Michel took him to the cleaners in France 98) Vogts, and Levein. All were given "another go" at qualifying when it was blatantly obvious the team was going nowhere. Burley would have stayed for Euro 2012 had the performances in the frindlies against Japan and Wales not been so bad.
As for the game overall - all sports move on. Coaching techniques develop, the way of playing changes in terms of tactics and developing players. Scotland struggles to adapt to these changes. Those running the game in Scotland in the most part haven't a clue and nothings about to change.
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Achnotagain
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2 Jul 2018, 04:29 PM
Post #146
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I kept meaning to post, but didn’t, so there are a few things I want to say.
In Ireland they go 7, then 9 then 11 a side. This is fine except you don’t get to 11’s until u13’s. This too late in my opinion .
I coached my sons team from u’8’s and from 10 yo onwards, as well as the league 7’s, we’d also play bounce 11’s in secret against other like minded teams. The spacial awareness around a football pitch, the ball, your teammates and the opponent is something that by the time the boys are strong headed teenagers should be by instinct from playing when they are a sponge of learning . Trying to ram that into them later is harder .
I was a reluctant coach as I’m in prime GAA country so there were no other volunteers. A good thing we had was that you needed to go to at least one full day coaching course soon after you started coaching. I didn’t agree with everything that was taught, but lots of good stuff including child safety.
One thing I don’t see coached enough is the importance of the first touch. This is my hobby horse. The emphasis is almost always just bring it under control, before deciding what to do with it.
I found that even moderately skilled players had the ability to decide where they were going with the ball as it came to them and tailor their first touch accordingly, often giving them more time on the ball or opening up the pitch for a pass to a teammate.
Lastly, I’m surprised that the mental side of things hasn’t been discussed more.
The differing maturity of boys in their teen years is stark. Also some are simply mentally stronger. This is not just a “you must want it more” point although prospects need to put the work in, it’s about attitude and reacting to challenges and adversity. The naturally mentally tough (in a sports context mind) will have the best chance to succeed.
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Mickeybhoy84
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2 Jul 2018, 04:41 PM
Post #147
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- SaMule
- 2 Jul 2018, 02:03 PM
- pedrok
- 2 Jul 2018, 01:53 PM
- Forza
- 2 Jul 2018, 01:20 PM
An often overlooked issue for Scotland at international level will likely be shown today or tomorrow when Dylan McGeouch signs for Sunderland, as expected. A player who most recently got international recognition due to good club form for Hibs, opting to play in England's third tier.
Hibs will play in Europe, albeit likely two rounds tops, and come up against other clubs who will play in Europe, as well play in big derby games. Going on League One odds, Sunderland's big games next season look like they'll come against Barnsley, Charlton and Scarrothorpe.
We do encourage players in Scotland to go and experience football at as high a level as they can, and in some cases over the years it has worked out well. In the modern era though, the success rate is much lower.
Sunderland are a bigger club than anything outside Celtic and Sevco, and I have no doubt McGeouch is accepting the best financial offer available to him, when he has perhaps two major playing contracts left to sign in his career. They may also win League One at a canter and get back to something like a decent level in the Championship.
However it does strike me that there is zero ambition in such a move, or zero emphasis on non-financial career prospects. English lower league football is a minimum 46 game slog, with very few free midweeks to coach technique or advance better tactics. The emphasis is on a formulaic physical and direct approach to the game that will do McGeouch no favours at all, like many before him.
It's not just things like this, it's also situations like Feruz at youth level. Scott Allan to a hopeless Rotherham team. Stevie Mallan and Liam Lindsay to an inevitably doomed Barnsley. Good moves financially, bad moves by virtually every other measure, including for the international team. It also serves to weaken the SPFL.
Players can often get caught up in hype from even lower Championship teams downwards. It needs to stop being viewed as some sort of Holy Grail when the reality is it is an average standard offering above average financial security.
Something I mentioned earlier on is the lack of Scottish players that go abroad. You look at these small/mid sized nations at the world cup, full of players that play outside their own nation (and I include the UK as being the nation here). Surely someone could have taken a look at a player like McGeouch and tried to get him a move abroad? I imagine the problem he may have is that he might have a young family, and the thought of moving abroad would be too much. But surely we should be looking to move young players abroad, rather than the reserve teams of lower Championship/First Division English teams!
Barry Douglas certainly seems to have benefitted from his travels. Was apparently very good for Wolves last season, according to folk I know who watch that league. Liam Henderson seems to be doing well in Italy too. Problem is that foreign teams (outwith the obvious CL contenders) rarely pay anything like as much as English teams do, because a) the English teams are swimming in money and b) you'd want a fair wedge to choose living in the likes of Sunderland and Huddersfield over living in say Copenhagen or Florence. There's also the language factor, given that your average Scottish footballer probably isn't going to grow up thinking that he needs to learn a foreign language to get by in life. The SFA should try and strike up some sort of partnership that sees kids from the Performance School spend a few months effectively on trial with a team overseas. I don’t know how difficult that would be to arrange from a logistical point of view but maybe a deal with the likes of Man Citys parent company would make it easier.
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