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Goalkeepers
Topic Started: 7 Jun 2018, 05:42 PM (7,556 Views)
weejimmy
First name on the team-sheet
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Luca
13 Jun 2018, 09:22 AM
CaltonBhoy1967
13 Jun 2018, 07:51 AM
weejimmy
12 Jun 2018, 11:53 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Yes - Let's see the workings on "as far as I can tell"?


May well be right on Boruc and Forster I don't know.


As for Gordon - First league game of the season please wait on Bertie Auld coming out after the game and tell him as far as you can tell Gordon is a better keeper than Ronnie Simpson was - I will pay good money to see and hear his reaction!!!
I seem to have offended you both, apologies, i'm only stating my opinion - as I say, I'm going on the basis of `as far as I can tell`. I'm not the only person to have stated this opinion on this thread btw.

Also, i'm not slighting Simpson in anyway if that's why you both seem so offended. He was obviously a very good goalkeeper. And an absolute legend for Celtic. :worthy:

Anyway, as others have also said, Boruc at his peak was one of the top keepers in Europe. Gordon and Forster at their peak were the best keepers in Britain. So far as I can tell, Simpson never reached that status.

On my part, 'nowhere near' was probably a bit strong, but I stand by my opinion that Boruc, Forster and Gordon were better goalkeepers. The three of them weren't, however, European Cup winners or Celtic Legends (although, they have all written themselves into Celtic folklore).

No apology needed :thumbsup:
I am just curious as to how you reached your conclusion.
I am an old timer and saw Ronnie Simpson play. He was an excellent keeper and played
at a time when the Scottish league was pretty competitive.
I dont ever get into discussions on "who is the best of all time" e.g. If you haven't seen em you can not judge em.
Boruc I thought was an excellent goalie but I was not crazy about Foster. For a man as tall as he was he could not command that box.
But it is all about opinions. :thumbsup:
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tinsoldier
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Older than dirt
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Flawless
13 Jun 2018, 09:42 AM
Boruc was better than Forster.

Yep - I think people let the unfit Boruc of later cloud that fact.

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IainG
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Ah but I was so much older then,I'm younger than that now
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tinsoldier
13 Jun 2018, 06:16 PM
Flawless
13 Jun 2018, 09:42 AM
Boruc was better than Forster.

Yep - I think people let the unfit Boruc of later cloud that fact.

Absolutely. Boruc at his best was a class above Forster who was himself a very good keeper for us.
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Butters
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Craig Gordon at his peak wasn't the best keeper in Scotland let alone Britain.

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tocce 1973
First-team captain
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tinsoldier
13 Jun 2018, 06:16 PM
Flawless
13 Jun 2018, 09:42 AM
Boruc was better than Forster.

Yep - I think people let the unfit Boruc of later cloud that fact.

:thumbsup:
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Atticus Lynch
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IainG
13 Jun 2018, 06:23 PM
tinsoldier
13 Jun 2018, 06:16 PM
Flawless
13 Jun 2018, 09:42 AM
Boruc was better than Forster.

Yep - I think people let the unfit Boruc of later cloud that fact.

Absolutely. Boruc at his best was a class above Forster who was himself a very good keeper for us.
Even if Boruc was better than Forster, which is debatable in either direction, Boruc was never a "class above" Forster.

And vice versa.
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IainG
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Ah but I was so much older then,I'm younger than that now
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Atticus Lynch
13 Jun 2018, 09:25 PM
IainG
13 Jun 2018, 06:23 PM
tinsoldier
13 Jun 2018, 06:16 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Absolutely. Boruc at his best was a class above Forster who was himself a very good keeper for us.
Even if Boruc was better than Forster, which is debatable in either direction, Boruc was never a "class above" Forster.

And vice versa.
Boruc, at his best I must add, was among the best keepers in the World. Forster was never near that.
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ian1888
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IainG
13 Jun 2018, 10:21 PM
Atticus Lynch
13 Jun 2018, 09:25 PM
IainG
13 Jun 2018, 06:23 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Even if Boruc was better than Forster, which is debatable in either direction, Boruc was never a "class above" Forster.

And vice versa.
Boruc, at his best I must add, was among the best keepers in the World. Forster was never near that.
and he could save pens

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GU4WNBp4YUY


and i will always remember this !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsTZd5BPr6s

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Pat_Mustard
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Its too big for the float Father.
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IainG
13 Jun 2018, 10:21 PM
Atticus Lynch
13 Jun 2018, 09:25 PM
IainG
13 Jun 2018, 06:23 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Even if Boruc was better than Forster, which is debatable in either direction, Boruc was never a "class above" Forster.

And vice versa.
Boruc, at his best I must add, was among the best keepers in the World. Forster was never near that.
As well as being a great keeper Boruc was something of a talisman, never had another keeper in my lifetime who could assume that mantle. FWIW Forester was a great keeper for us too, however for me it’s like comparing Henrik to Hooper, both terrific players but one was a once in a generation great.
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scotoz
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ian1888
16 Jun 2018, 10:53 PM


And vice versa.
Boruc, at his best I must add, was among the best keepers in the World. Forster was never near that.[/quote]and he could save pens

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GU4WNBp4YUY




[/quote]Interesting to watch the pen save compilation. I would swear that just afore the ball is kicked he always kicks out his leg on the side he ends up diving towards.
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Hail Hail Cesar
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ian1888
16 Jun 2018, 10:53 PM
IainG
13 Jun 2018, 10:21 PM
Atticus Lynch
13 Jun 2018, 09:25 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Boruc, at his best I must add, was among the best keepers in the World. Forster was never near that.
and he could save pens

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GU4WNBp4YUY


and i will always remember this !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsTZd5BPr6s

That double save at the end!!! :rubeyes:
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piesween
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Youth team player
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Boruc
foster
gordon

i always remember being behind the goals when boruc pulled off a save from a russell anderson header in injury time to preserve the lead he had no business making it, superb reflexes
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SonOfBobo
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Forster's distribution was absolutely terrible.
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Bhobby Lhennox
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At his very best Boruc by a mile. Over their whole Celtic careers, Forster, just.

If Javier Sanchez Broto had played in Seville ...

And if I’d back-heeled a ball when I was 30 yards out of my goal in a European Cup final when we were 1-0 down I’d be asking what this argument was all about.
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donkeyradish
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We've had the full spectrum of world class and awful keepers.
But having a solid defence is WAY more important.
Mexico demonstrated this today. A fantastic rear guard.
They did the work, the keeper had mostly a routine task.

That's how Rab Douglas got to a Uefa cup final.
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Torquemada
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IainG
13 Jun 2018, 06:23 PM
tinsoldier
13 Jun 2018, 06:16 PM
Flawless
13 Jun 2018, 09:42 AM
Boruc was better than Forster.

Yep - I think people let the unfit Boruc of later cloud that fact.

Absolutely. Boruc at his best was a class above Forster who was himself a very good keeper for us.
Is that the Boruc who did his best to make Kenny Miller a hun legend by chipping three against them at CP, two of them to our Kenny? The Boruc who let Kris Boyd trundle one past him to give the fat, useless clown the only goal he scored against us in 500 attempts? The Boruc who let Ugo Ehiogue RIP knock one over his head by acting the carrot trying to make a simple fist over the bar into a Hollywood save? And several more against the huns that, mercifully, I'm glad to have forgotten? And finally, the Boruc who let John Rankin skitter one past him from 45 yards at Easter Road? That Artur Boruc?

Eighteen months of brilliance -- and at his best he WAS utterly brilliant -- doesn't make up for the number of goals he sold against them. Not for this bear. But as my granny used to say, get a name for rising early and you can lie in till dinnertime.

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Butters
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Torquemada
17 Jun 2018, 10:59 PM
IainG
13 Jun 2018, 06:23 PM
tinsoldier
13 Jun 2018, 06:16 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Absolutely. Boruc at his best was a class above Forster who was himself a very good keeper for us.
Is that the Boruc who did his best to make Kenny Miller a hun legend by chipping three against them at CP, two of them to our Kenny? The Boruc who let Kris Boyd trundle one past him to give the fat, useless clown the only goal he scored against us in 500 attempts? The Boruc who let Ugo Ehiogue RIP knock one over his head by acting the carrot trying to make a simple fist over the bar into a Hollywood save? And several more against the huns that, mercifully, I'm glad to have forgotten? And finally, the Boruc who let John Rankin skitter one past him from 45 yards at Easter Road? That Artur Boruc?

Eighteen months of brilliance -- and at his best he WAS utterly brilliant -- doesn't make up for the number of goals he sold against them. Not for this bear. But as my granny used to say, get a name for rising early and you can lie in till dinnertime.

Boruc was fortunate in that most of his mistakes against them were ultimately meaningless, the Ehigou game & the only goal Boyd scored against us came in dead rubbers where we were going to win the league comfortably.

Edited by Butters, 18 Jun 2018, 01:18 PM.
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One sharp cookie
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Butters
18 Jun 2018, 01:18 PM
Torquemada
17 Jun 2018, 10:59 PM
IainG
13 Jun 2018, 06:23 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Is that the Boruc who did his best to make Kenny Miller a hun legend by chipping three against them at CP, two of them to our Kenny? The Boruc who let Kris Boyd trundle one past him to give the fat, useless clown the only goal he scored against us in 500 attempts? The Boruc who let Ugo Ehiogue RIP knock one over his head by acting the carrot trying to make a simple fist over the bar into a Hollywood save? And several more against the huns that, mercifully, I'm glad to have forgotten? And finally, the Boruc who let John Rankin skitter one past him from 45 yards at Easter Road? That Artur Boruc?

Eighteen months of brilliance -- and at his best he WAS utterly brilliant -- doesn't make up for the number of goals he sold against them. Not for this bear. But as my granny used to say, get a name for rising early and you can lie in till dinnertime.

Boruc was fortunate in that most of his mistakes against them were ultimately meaningless, the Ehigou game & the only goal Boyd scored against us came in dead rubbers where we were going to win the league comfortably.

The fact we still remember them vividly tells you they weren’t meaningless. They might not have cost us titles but those are the type of games that define Celtic careers.
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Dr_Optimist
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I see Boruc as our Peter Schmeichel and Forster as our David Seaman. Both comparisons are with goalkeepers of a similar style from a similar era.

The former a little bit unhinged with a tendency to make unbelievable saves and with a real aura about him. A talisman with a big personality.

The latter I see as a goalkeeper who is solid and dependable, international class but without that little bit of x-factor that separates the world class from the great. Forster was great for us, and really improved to a high standard but he was almost like a 'man made' goalkeeper who had been coached to that standard and perhaps it is notable that his form has dipped down south without Stevie Woods?

Boruc was at his best the complete package. Possibly uncoachable. Great shot stopper, handy on crosses, great in 1v1's, a good penalty stopper (and taker) and comfortable on the ball with either foot. As said, he was at one stage on the shortlist for best goalkeeper in the world.

I think his form for us dipped for a few reasons. His madcap personality led to what appeared to be chaos in his private life. I suspect there may have been something of a mental health issue with him at one point but that's just me speculating. His melt down wasn't dissimilar to that of Oliver Khan at Bayern Munich, who was also world class but off his head. And also a guy with a similar goalkeeping style to Artur.

I also think he just got bored. After we played Milan in the Champions League he was top of the world. His stock was high. He played and starred in the Euros. And we were left with a world class goalkeeper twiddling his thumbs at times in the monotony of the SPL. You could see he was chancing things, dribbling the ball out, trying daft passes because he was trying to mix it up a bit.

One game I think he stood out for focus and concentration was a game against Dundee Utd at home under Mowbray. We had one of our youngest centre half pairings of Rogne and Josh Thomson. Artur was a leader that day, commanded his box and cut out all the nonsense. It was as if he rose to the challenge.

Had he moved when he should have, he likely would have continued on an upward curve. Even a 'fat, unprofessional' Artur was still pretty good and turned out some good, occasionally great, performances.
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Dr_Optimist
Aka 'The Thesis'
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On best of the rest, I thought Douglas was a solid pro who did us a good turn but who ultimately wasn't good enough to match the standards set by his teammates. A good organiser and communicator but with the misfortune to throw one in during big games. He was almost the antithesis of Marshall who conceded more goals, was a poor communicator but for some reason could lift his performance for big games.

He was also unlucky to be overplayed and overexposed due to Hedman being a bit of a shampooebag. That led to Rab continuing in the slot that he should have vacated, at times exceeding himself but set himself up for a huge fall from grace. Had he just been backup 2003 onwards, he would have probably been seen as a decent guy in the shadows who filled in reliably now and again.

Hedman himself was technically a decent goalkeeper but without the mental strength. He actually had a good run sandwiched in between soft goals in Munich and Lyon. However a performance at Ibrox when he hurriedly kicked a clearance when defending a narrow lead (which led to him being berated by Lennon) can be contrasted with another goalkeeper at the time Javier Sanchez Broto who when coming on as a sub in another game at Ibrox, casually lifted the ball above his head and strolled to the edge of the box to calm things down.

Broto was a guy who I liked. He had a continental style about him and the right personality to play for Celtic. As well as probably the most impressive kick from hand that we have seen from all of our 'great' goalkeepers. I wish we had given him a chance.

Jonathan Gould was a guy who got lucky with us. A decent enough keeper but I think played above his capabilities in an iconic season. Over the piece, he was average bar that season. But he too could kick with ball with good distance and accuracy.

One guy I liked growing up was Stewart Kerr (of crisps fame). Perhaps our judgements were clouded by the fact he finally replaced the unreliable (and unlikeable) Gordon Marshall but Kerr was quite good with cross balls, excellent in 1v1's and had a good presence. He often got caught in no man's land and was lobbed quite a few times, but that could have been rectified by decent coaching. I think the back injury he received basically finished him.

Among the current goalkeepers, Gordon has always been good (moreso for Scotland imo) but had a bit of a question mark about his big game mentality. He has matured into a good goalkeeper who can make exceptional saves but with a poor general command of his area. Injuries I think have slowed him down and curtailed his distribution.

Bain I think is a bit like Broto - not lacking in self-belief, good distribution and with a bit of a continental style about him. Will be interesting to see how he develops.

The worst? Gordon Marshall and Mark Brown without a doubt. With De Vries a close third.
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