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Tommy Burns, as manager.
Topic Started: 7 Jun 2018, 04:58 PM (5,741 Views)
Kingslim
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tinsoldier
9 Jun 2018, 04:57 PM
idyllwild
9 Jun 2018, 04:17 PM
remy mcswain
9 Jun 2018, 02:02 PM

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Aye, when he was good he was eh, good. Which was nowhere near often enough.

Never seen anyone who disappeared as much in matches. At least until Zurawski.
He was bloody infuriating as he certainly had the talent.
His goal at Ibrox, in the 3-3 game was some strike.
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Mackin
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idyllwild
9 Jun 2018, 04:17 PM
remy mcswain
9 Jun 2018, 02:02 PM
C J Thorpe
9 Jun 2018, 12:36 PM

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Thom appears to have mythical status on this board. Injured way too often, disappeared in matches for long periods and very rarely did anything in the games that mattered.
Aye, when he was good he was eh, good. Which was nowhere near often enough.

Never seen anyone who disappeared as much in matches. At least until Zurawski.
Got subbed more often than big Tam.

I'm sure Not the View did something about him never managing to finish a game.
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Stringer Bell
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Some great players and some real diddies too. Mcstay being injured for most of 96/97 didn’t help either. Even at that stage of his career he was a better option than Hannah or O’Donnell.

Ultimately, Burns made going to watch Celtic enjoyable again. The Huns probably found us a soft touch right enough.

Someone mentioned Gascoigne being average for the huns earlier in the thread. Not having that at all. As loathsome as he is/was, he was a wonderful player for them. It’s seriously blinkered to say otherwise.
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littlegmbhoy
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Stringer Bell
11 Jun 2018, 09:44 AM
Some great players and some real diddies too. Mcstay being injured for most of 96/97 didn’t help either. Even at that stage of his career he was a better option than Hannah or O’Donnell.

Ultimately, Burns made going to watch Celtic enjoyable again. The Huns probably found us a soft touch right enough.

Someone mentioned Gascoigne being average for the huns earlier in the thread. Not having that at all. As loathsome as he is/was, he was a wonderful player for them. It’s seriously blinkered to say otherwise.
Wife beater and some size of self destruct button but he was a fantastic player at Rangers (RIP).

Cannot be denied.

Edited by littlegmbhoy, 11 Jun 2018, 10:51 AM.
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sevilliano
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At the time Jansen took over he was asked to look at the huns videos and give board a view of how to counteract their system

He said they didn't have a system - it was just give the ball to gascoigne and laudrup and hope for best

despite us losing 2 league matches winning 1 and drawing 1 in 94th min (alan stubbs :rocker:) v them when he stopped the 10

Jansen's attitude that they were no great shakes and could be beaten was in stark contrast to period under Tommy
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Ned Rise
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sevilliano
11 Jun 2018, 11:17 AM
At the time Jansen took over he was asked to look at the huns videos and give board a view of how to counteract their system

He said they didn't have a system - it was just give the ball to gascoigne and laudrup and hope for best

despite us losing 2 league matches winning 1 and drawing 1 in 94th min (alan stubbs :rocker:) v them when he stopped the 10

Jansen's attitude that they were no great shakes and could be beaten was in stark contrast to period under Tommy
We won the league under Jansen with less points than we'd accumulated the previous two seasons under Jansen. As you point out, the win over the huns was crucial in the end, but we nearly blew it with a stuttering run over months.

We crashed out of Europe in the first round too. Jansen wasn't a managerial genius, but I'll always be grateful for him getting the team to, finally, believe and get us over the line.

Burns' Celtic made a massive improvement in 95-96 season. We lost once and got 83 points. 32 points more than the year before. Unfortunately, we drew 11 games.

Doubly unfortunate, the huns also made a massive improvement. They had won the league with an utterly pishy 69 points the year before, drawing 9 and losing 7 games. I don't think they could blame Europe either. They ended up 18 points better off than a year earlier.

The main thing Jansen brought us, in the end, was Henrik. Maybe we would have got him anyway. We had signed the likes of PVH, Thom, Di Canio, Cadete. Wim knew of Henrik's buy-out clause, but I'm sure his agent would have been on the blower to clubs in any case.

It turned out the way it did and that can't be changed. But I don't know if I'd buy the notion that Burns would never have won the league that year. As mentioned before, he pretty much got robbed out of one with a linesman's crucial intervention at Ibrox and the Cadete affair.


Edited by Ned Rise, 11 Jun 2018, 11:44 AM.
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Forza
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In fairness we drew Liverpool in Europe and recorded two draws, going out on away goals. The goal that ultimately did for us was one of the best the stadium is likely to have seen in recent decades, from McManaman.

I always remember thinking that, aside from someone failing to simply foul McManaman to ensure that goal was never scored, we actually showed a bit more tactical awareness and sturdiness in those ties.

Sadly the performances in the previous season against Hamburg had been a bit of a disaster.

Wim's only other European tie was that mad preliminary round tie against Tirol Innsbruck. 6-3 at Parkhead I think it was. Madness.
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Ned Rise
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Forza
11 Jun 2018, 11:51 AM
In fairness we drew Liverpool in Europe and recorded two draws, going out on away goals. The goal that ultimately did for us was one of the best the stadium is likely to have seen in recent decades, from McManaman.

I always remember thinking that, aside from someone failing to simply foul McManaman to ensure that goal was never scored, we actually showed a bit more tactical awareness and sturdiness in those ties.

Sadly the performances in the previous season against Hamburg had been a bit of a disaster.

Wim's only other European tie was that mad preliminary round tie against Tirol Innsbruck. 6-3 at Parkhead I think it was. Madness.
Aye, there were definite positives to be taken from the Liverpool game. It had me thinking straight away that we really could win the league that year.

Then again, I'd had that a few times before with early season wins at Ibrox.

The League Cup win was also pivotal. It gave the team belief that we could win trophies again, having only a single Scottish Cup win in 8 seasons to our name.
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Butters
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Stringer Bell
11 Jun 2018, 09:44 AM
Some great players and some real diddies too. Mcstay being injured for most of 96/97 didn’t help either. Even at that stage of his career he was a better option than Hannah or O’Donnell.

Ultimately, Burns made going to watch Celtic enjoyable again. The Huns probably found us a soft touch right enough.

Someone mentioned Gascoigne being average for the huns earlier in the thread. Not having that at all. As loathsome as he is/was, he was a wonderful player for them. It’s seriously blinkered to say otherwise.
I stand by that comment, he never came close to fulfilling his potential, he caused us a lot less bother than Hateley & Laudrup did.

He was never the same player after destroying his knee despite a couple of moments of utter brilliance. If I was a Hun on the whole I think I'd have been a bit dissapointed with him considering he was brought in to take them to the next level.

Edited by Butters, 11 Jun 2018, 12:34 PM.
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Silent Witness
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Ned Rise
11 Jun 2018, 11:43 AM
sevilliano
11 Jun 2018, 11:17 AM
At the time Jansen took over he was asked to look at the huns videos and give board a view of how to counteract their system

He said they didn't have a system - it was just give the ball to gascoigne and laudrup and hope for best

despite us losing 2 league matches winning 1 and drawing 1 in 94th min (alan stubbs :rocker:) v them when he stopped the 10

Jansen's attitude that they were no great shakes and could be beaten was in stark contrast to period under Tommy
We won the league under Jansen with less points than we'd accumulated the previous two seasons under Jansen. As you point out, the win over the huns was crucial in the end, but we nearly blew it with a stuttering run over months.

We crashed out of Europe in the first round too. Jansen wasn't a managerial genius, but I'll always be grateful for him getting the team to, finally, believe and get us over the line.

Burns' Celtic made a massive improvement in 95-96 season. We lost once and got 83 points. 32 points more than the year before. Unfortunately, we drew 11 games.

Doubly unfortunate, the huns also made a massive improvement. They had won the league with an utterly pishy 69 points the year before, drawing 9 and losing 7 games. I don't think they could blame Europe either. They ended up 18 points better off than a year earlier.

The main thing Jansen brought us, in the end, was Henrik. Maybe we would have got him anyway. We had signed the likes of PVH, Thom, Di Canio, Cadete. Wim knew of Henrik's buy-out clause, but I'm sure his agent would have been on the blower to clubs in any case.

It turned out the way it did and that can't be changed. But I don't know if I'd buy the notion that Burns would never have won the league that year. As mentioned before, he pretty much got robbed out of one with a linesman's crucial intervention at Ibrox and the Cadete affair.


The points total can be a deceptive guide. Jansen's Celtic was superior to the side of 95/96 for sure, and certainly more balanced in terms of the distribution of talent. We saw better football to the eye in 95/6 for sure, but it was a weak collection of SPL teams that season. Aberdeen and Hearts were too open and easy to pick off, and very ordinary Raith side finished 5th. In 97/98, Hearts were vastly improved, as were Killie, while Aberdeen were at least better organised defensively. If it looked harder work for Celtic to win games, then that is because it was on account of the better standard of opponent.
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Belgrano
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Butters
11 Jun 2018, 12:31 PM
Stringer Bell
11 Jun 2018, 09:44 AM
Some great players and some real diddies too. Mcstay being injured for most of 96/97 didn’t help either. Even at that stage of his career he was a better option than Hannah or O’Donnell.

Ultimately, Burns made going to watch Celtic enjoyable again. The Huns probably found us a soft touch right enough.

Someone mentioned Gascoigne being average for the huns earlier in the thread. Not having that at all. As loathsome as he is/was, he was a wonderful player for them. It’s seriously blinkered to say otherwise.
I stand by that comment, he never came close to fulfilling his potential, he caused us a lot less bother than Hateley & Laudrup did.

He was never the same player after destroying his knee despite a couple of moments of utter brilliance. If I was a Hun on the whole I think I'd have been a bit dissapointed with him considering he was brought in to take them to the next level.

I'd agree with that. Gascoigne of Rangers was never at the same level as the Spurs Gascoigne. And Hateley and Laudrup definitely done more damage to us.

I'd disagree too with McStay missing a lot of the 96/97 season being a hugely bad thing. He'd been a shadow of the player for a few seasons before that too. Had he played in the 97/98 season - the huns would have won 10. McStay retiring and freeing up that central midfield role was probably one of the biggest turning factors in us reversing the hun tide.
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CHR15
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Belgrano
16 Jun 2018, 08:07 PM
Butters
11 Jun 2018, 12:31 PM
Stringer Bell
11 Jun 2018, 09:44 AM
Some great players and some real diddies too. Mcstay being injured for most of 96/97 didn’t help either. Even at that stage of his career he was a better option than Hannah or O’Donnell.

Ultimately, Burns made going to watch Celtic enjoyable again. The Huns probably found us a soft touch right enough.

Someone mentioned Gascoigne being average for the huns earlier in the thread. Not having that at all. As loathsome as he is/was, he was a wonderful player for them. It’s seriously blinkered to say otherwise.
I stand by that comment, he never came close to fulfilling his potential, he caused us a lot less bother than Hateley & Laudrup did.

He was never the same player after destroying his knee despite a couple of moments of utter brilliance. If I was a Hun on the whole I think I'd have been a bit dissapointed with him considering he was brought in to take them to the next level.

I'd agree with that. Gascoigne of Rangers was never at the same level as the Spurs Gascoigne. And Hateley and Laudrup definitely done more damage to us.

I'd disagree too with McStay missing a lot of the 96/97 season being a hugely bad thing. He'd been a shadow of the player for a few seasons before that too. Had he played in the 97/98 season - the huns would have won 10. McStay retiring and freeing up that central midfield role was probably one of the biggest turning factors in us reversing the hun tide.
Aye, and as much as he’s a total walloper these days, Burley was a massive factor in stopping the ten alongside Lambert in midfield.

The biggest thing though was signing Henrik.
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thetrurolion
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Ned Rise
11 Jun 2018, 11:43 AM
sevilliano
11 Jun 2018, 11:17 AM
At the time Jansen took over he was asked to look at the huns videos and give board a view of how to counteract their system

He said they didn't have a system - it was just give the ball to gascoigne and laudrup and hope for best

despite us losing 2 league matches winning 1 and drawing 1 in 94th min (alan stubbs :rocker:) v them when he stopped the 10

Jansen's attitude that they were no great shakes and could be beaten was in stark contrast to period under Tommy
We won the league under Jansen with less points than we'd accumulated the previous two seasons under Jansen. As you point out, the win over the huns was crucial in the end, but we nearly blew it with a stuttering run over months.

We crashed out of Europe in the first round too. Jansen wasn't a managerial genius, but I'll always be grateful for him getting the team to, finally, believe and get us over the line.

Burns' Celtic made a massive improvement in 95-96 season. We lost once and got 83 points. 32 points more than the year before. Unfortunately, we drew 11 games.

Doubly unfortunate, the huns also made a massive improvement. They had won the league with an utterly pishy 69 points the year before, drawing 9 and losing 7 games. I don't think they could blame Europe either. They ended up 18 points better off than a year earlier.

The main thing Jansen brought us, in the end, was Henrik. Maybe we would have got him anyway. We had signed the likes of PVH, Thom, Di Canio, Cadete. Wim knew of Henrik's buy-out clause, but I'm sure his agent would have been on the blower to clubs in any case.

It turned out the way it did and that can't be changed. But I don't know if I'd buy the notion that Burns would never have won the league that year. As mentioned before, he pretty much got robbed out of one with a linesman's crucial intervention at Ibrox and the Cadete affair.


Tommy was too loyal to some players, and no way the midfield of mcstay and grant would have stopped the 10. Mcstay was well past his best and grant was not good enough. Burley and lambert played a huge part in stopping the 10. Aside from his relationship with Henrik and knowledge of his contract situation bringing him in, signing Reiper was huge. Tommys teams always had a defensive brittleness and he never seemed to learn from his mistakes. I thought Jansen did well amid the intolerable pressure to deliver the league and a cup. Tommy had his chance, but much as we loved him, couldn't deliver.
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murphio
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Worth mentioning, it it hasn't been mentioned already, that Burns got more league points in the season he was sacked than Jansen did the following season. Also worth mentioning that Mahe, Jackson, Lambert and Rieper (at least) were players Burns had identified to bring to the club. In terms of winning big games (ie, Rangers) Jansen fared little better - he only beat a Rangers team on the slide once from five games. Burns was unfortunate, I think. He did as well as could be expected given the budget he had.
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remy mcswain
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murphio
17 Jun 2018, 06:02 PM
Worth mentioning, it it hasn't been mentioned already, that Burns got more league points in the season he was sacked than Jansen did the following season. Also worth mentioning that Mahe, Jackson, Lambert and Rieper (at least) were players Burns had identified to bring to the club. In terms of winning big games (ie, Rangers) Jansen fared little better - he only beat a Rangers team on the slide once from five games. Burns was unfortunate, I think. He did as well as could be expected given the budget he had.
He spent £2m to win a Scottish Cup semi final against Falkirk. Then failed in two goes.
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IainG
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Sure this has been said already but Tommy was a far too emotional person to be a good manager.
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donkeyradish
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TB may have been far from our most brilliant manager, but he's still my favourite Celtic man who actually was the manager.
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Gonga
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donkeyradish
17 Jun 2018, 09:57 PM
TB may have been far from our most brilliant manager, but he's still my favourite Celtic man who actually was the manager.
Same, I’ll always see it as being Burns side that took us out of the shampoo.

Maybe not enough to win the league, but there was a shift and and important one.
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Ted Crilly
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Tommy had his faults particularly defensively but the football we played was breathtaking with Thom,Pierre,Cadette etc to lose one league and not win the league was unlucky although the draws killed us games we could not see out when in the lead. He took us though at the most difficult time for any Celtic manager ever and built the club up to the extent that it made it possible for Jansen to do what he did.
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harryhoodshatrick
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His team certainly played the Celtic way great to watch and we had a team capable of pushing a strong rangers team.If the Huns weren’t pushing for 9 in a row he might have been given more time.Davie Hay was our scout and went to watch PVH in Holland but liked the defender in the other team who would have cost the same money and fergus said we could only buy 1 and we went for the striker and not the defender who was a young Jaap Stam.I think this summed up our philosophy at the time!.
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