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The All New Sevco Back in Yer Bin Thread; Taking out the trash
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Topic Started: 29 Apr 2018, 04:24 PM (2,086,578 Views)
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brianlara67
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19 Jun 2018, 08:27 PM
Post #8981
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- Gothamcelt
- 19 Jun 2018, 04:47 PM
"The collapse of the Rangers business left thousands of unsecured creditors out of pocket including more than 6000 loyal fans who bought £7.7m worth of debenture seats at Ibrox". Surely it's the same club so they must still have their seats? It goes from the the club, to oldco to rangers business but still not liquidation. Rangers oldco liquidation leaves creditors with £1.4m after 'disgraceful' £20m costMartin Williams @Martin1Williams Spoiler: click to toggle 'Disgraceful' £20m cost of Rangers oldco liquidation leaves creditors with £1.4m FIRMS handling the collapse of Rangers have been accused of profiting from "other people's misfortune" after it emerged they pocketed nearly £20 million in fees while creditors including thousands of fans have received just £1.4m. In what has been branded an "absolute disgrace", it has also emerged there is currently just £8.2m left to distribute to the thousands who lost money as a result of the club's financial implosion. It means that, barring any outstanding legal claims, the maximum creditors could expect to get right now would be around half that taken by liquidators, administrators and solicitors. The club's collapse left thousands of unsecured creditors out of pocket, including more than 6000 loyal fans who bought £7.7m worth of debenture seats at Ibrox. Creditors also ranged from corporate giants such as Coca-Cola to a picture framer in Bearsden and a lady called Susan Thomson who runs a face-painting business and was owed £40. One creditor, who asked not to be named, said: “I personally, having taken legal advice, was not holding out for much more than a few pence in the pound out of the liquidation but it is mind-boggling to hear about the millions that is being made out of other people’s misfortune. “This has got to be wrong. It is clear that we should get far more out of what happened at Rangers than we have currently got and are likely to get.” Since the oldco fell into administration under former owner Craig Whyte in February, 2012, legal firms acting for insolvency firm BDO, the liquidators of RFC 2012 plc have received £10.356 million, while the liquidators bill stood at £4.136 million at April, 2018. The legal bill includes the £353,757 cost of employing counsel in the failed fight to convince the Supreme Court that the club's use of Employee Benefit Trusts to pay players and staff were loans that were not liable for tax. More than £47 million was paid to Rangers players, managers and directors in the EBT scheme administered by the Murray Group, then majority shareholder of the Ibrox club, between 2001 and 2010 by way of tax-free loans. It is understood HMRC has not yet received any of the £72 million in unpaid tax and interest believed to be owed by the liquidated company, as haggling continues over how much they should actually get. BDO had agreed in November to pay an 'interim dividend' of nearly 4p for every pound of debt to unsecured creditors and £1.4 million has been distributed. Before BDO took on the liquidation in October, 2012, Duff and Phelps amassed £3.484 million in fees plus £1.326 million in legal fees over the eight months they acted as joint administrators. Leading legal costs expert Jim Diamond said: "It's an absolute disgrace and an indication in my view and experience of the Scottish legal marketplace which is totally geared up for the professional people without the necessary controls and not to the benefit of the general public and in this case the creditors." The costs lawyer continued:"How can you look at this and have nobody complaining? "Scotland needs to have the politicians have a look at what is going on." The collapse of the Rangers business left thousands of unsecured creditors out of pocket including more than 6000 loyal fans who bought £7.7m worth of debenture seats at Ibrox. Creditors ranged from giants such as Coca-Cola to a picture framer in Bearsden and a lady called Susan Thomson who runs a face-painting business and was owed £40. Papers reveal that £8.224 million of the legal fees including 'outlays' which are solicitors' expenses have so far gone to London-based legal firm Stephenson Harwood and were mostly over the settlement of a claim against London-based Collyer Bristow the solicitors involved in the controversial takeover of the club by Craig Whyte. The liquidators banked £24 milllion from that claim. BDO said £5.4 million of the Collyer Bristow fees were the result of it being "necessary to instruct" the company on a 'no win, no charge' conditional fee arrangement basis. That deal meant that Stephenson Harwood were entitled to their costs plus an extra 75 to 100 per cent to "compensate them for the risk that they would not get paid if the litigation failed". Edinburgh-based Brodies solicitors have had £1,246,738 in fees and outlays of £518,655 so far, while Shepherd and Wedderburn have had £152,272 and £20,875 in outlays and Levy and McRae have had £84,119 and £14,919 outlays. Takeover lawyer Gary Withey from Collyer Bristow, right, says he told Craig Whyte he would be mad to buy Rangers The £8.2 million currently in the creditors' payout pot would be wiped out if the company used by Mr Whyte to buy the club is successful in a new £18 million legal claim on the defunct oldco. The move by Rangers FC Group – the company formerly known as Wavetower that was founded by Mr Whyte - was stopped by BDO from appointing its own administrative receivers to control the in-liquidation firm. The move is the result of Rangers FC Group - now controlled by directors of the defunct investment firm Worthington Group plc - believing it holds a security over the liquidated assets of the oldco RFC 2012 plc. It is claimed the security was reassigned to the company from the Lloyds Banking Group after an £18m bank debt was paid off as a condition of Mr Whyte's £1 purchase of Rangers from Sir David Murray in May, 2011. It was said to be inherited by Mr Whyte after he paid off bank debt using funds raised from the selling off the rights of future season ticket sales to ticket agency Ticketus. Rangers oldco liquidators BDO says it obtained an interim interdict which stopped the receivership appointment. The other outstanding legal action is BDO's £28.9 million claim against Paul Clark and David Whitehouse of Duff and Phelps over their handling of the administration process. Duff & Phelps sold the business and assets of Rangers to a consortium fronted by Charles Green for £5.5 million in June, 2012. Duff & Phelps are fighting the action saying they were surprised and disappointed. Criminal charges against Mr Clark and Mr Whitehouse relating to their involvement with Rangers Football Club plc were dropped in June 2016. BDO declined to comment. http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/16300543._Disgraceful____20m_cost_of_Rangers_oldco_liquidation_leaves_creditors_with___1_4m/ Why doesn't the unnamed creditor ask Sevco for the money they are owed. They claim to be the same club so it won't be an issue getting their money. They'll just have a little bit late in paying up for their debt.
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FenianJack
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19 Jun 2018, 08:57 PM
Post #8982
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- danbhoy09
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- the iron tim
- 19 Jun 2018, 08:03 PM
- Burnley Celt
- 19 Jun 2018, 04:37 PM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
They can only go back 4 years to look for assets and I'm sure I read he transferred them to his wife 4 years and a few months prior to the bankruptcy. carrots played it well unfortunately.
That's annoying. My wife's gran transferred her house over to my mother in law as, apparently, should the need for care ever rear it's head, they can claw back assets that had been transferred within the last 7 years. If that’s true it’s an effing disgrace that the state will claw back the cost of care of old people for longer than they will on back taxes from an utter ball bag like him.
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ghirl86
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19 Jun 2018, 09:15 PM
Post #8983
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Brendan Rodgers, make us dream - Celtic FC.
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- FenianJack
- 19 Jun 2018, 08:57 PM
- danbhoy09
- 19 Jun 2018, 08:26 PM
- the iron tim
- 19 Jun 2018, 08:03 PM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
That's annoying. My wife's gran transferred her house over to my mother in law as, apparently, should the need for care ever rear it's head, they can claw back assets that had been transferred within the last 7 years.
If that’s true it’s an effing disgrace that the state will claw back the cost of care of old people for longer than they will on back taxes from an utter ball bag like him. If you die, HMRC are entitled to include alll gifts you made (above the annual exemption of £3K per year) in the 7 years prior to your death, in the inventory of your estate.
If you are alive and it is believed you transferred an asset to avoid care costs, it is the Local authority where you are receiving your care who can take legal action.
Edited by ghirl86, 19 Jun 2018, 09:24 PM.
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peejaybee
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19 Jun 2018, 09:31 PM
Post #8984
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- ghirl86
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- FenianJack
- 19 Jun 2018, 08:57 PM
- danbhoy09
- 19 Jun 2018, 08:26 PM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
If that’s true it’s an effing disgrace that the state will claw back the cost of care of old people for longer than they will on back taxes from an utter ball bag like him.
If you die, HMRC are entitled to include alll gifts you made (above the annual exemption of £3K per year) in the 7 years prior to your death, in the inventory of your estate. If you are alive and it is believed you transferred an asset to avoid care costs, it is the Local authority where you are receiving your care who can take legal action. Not sure there is a time limit as well if they classify it as deliberate deprivation-in relation to transferring assets to avoid care costs.
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spartacusthethird
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19 Jun 2018, 09:33 PM
Post #8985
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Dance as if no-ones watching, sing as if no-ones listening and live every day as if it was your last
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- Gully
- 19 Jun 2018, 08:42 PM
Who would yous say is the worst hun of all time? The one with a pulse
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Bhoy4srus
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19 Jun 2018, 09:52 PM
Post #8986
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Getting noticed in the reserves
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- Dubz
- 19 Jun 2018, 03:13 PM
- johnbhoy1958
- 19 Jun 2018, 02:11 PM
Nae Luck,Eh!,
” Scottish referee Bobby Madden forced to sell house as he battles bankruptcy over unpaid tax debts.The whistler, 39, faces the threat of going bust if he fails to reach an agreement after being taken to court by the taxman”
(The Sun)
At least he’s trying to settle the bill unlike Ferguson who switched everything to his wife and is now regarded as a bankrupt columnist. No way am I believing that the baldy Hun carrot is only 39 though. Tbf the guy has had and beaten cancer. Still a hun 🥕 though
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tomtheleedstim
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19 Jun 2018, 10:01 PM
Post #8987
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Hubris
Rapid Hubris or Racing Hubris? Raging hunbris.
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searcher52
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19 Jun 2018, 10:07 PM
Post #8988
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You can observe a lot by just watching
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- danbhoy09
- 19 Jun 2018, 08:26 PM
- the iron tim
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- 19 Jun 2018, 04:37 PM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
They can only go back 4 years to look for assets and I'm sure I read he transferred them to his wife 4 years and a few months prior to the bankruptcy. carrots played it well unfortunately.
That's annoying. My wife's gran transferred her house over to my mother in law as, apparently, should the need for care ever rear it's head, they can claw back assets that had been transferred within the last 7 years. That is one of the most ridiculous myths going about. There is no time limit in the context of avoiding care home costs - not in Scotland.
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Hairytoes
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19 Jun 2018, 10:39 PM
Post #8989
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- Kingslim
- 19 Jun 2018, 10:24 PM
- Gully
- 19 Jun 2018, 09:38 PM
Mo Rasmussen was underrated
Better make it 30 tinnies I know I shouldn't but
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Bokeh Junior
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19 Jun 2018, 10:40 PM
Post #8990
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First name on the team-sheet
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- Kingslim
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Mo Rasmussen was underrated
Better make it 30 tinnies Sounds like hes going for 55 tinnies
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GoKartMozart
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19 Jun 2018, 11:02 PM
Post #8991
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Mo Rasmussen was underrated
Better make it 30 tinnies
Sounds like hes going for 55 tinnies Ach, he will never make the 55 tinnies. Back to the Gullibillies.
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danbhoy09
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19 Jun 2018, 11:04 PM
Post #8992
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- searcher52
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Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
That's annoying. My wife's gran transferred her house over to my mother in law as, apparently, should the need for care ever rear it's head, they can claw back assets that had been transferred within the last 7 years.
That is one of the most ridiculous myths going about. There is no time limit in the context of avoiding care home costs - not in Scotland. I did say ‘apparently’. I’ve not taken anything to do with it and don’t have a clue what the law is with regards to the transfer of assets - not least of all if it with a view to avoid paying care costs.
Anyway, I was just curious about it being 4 years in the Barry (8) example and 7 (which now appears to be nonsense) for the care situ.
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searcher52
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19 Jun 2018, 11:20 PM
Post #8993
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You can observe a lot by just watching
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- danbhoy09
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Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
That is one of the most ridiculous myths going about. There is no time limit in the context of avoiding care home costs - not in Scotland.
I did say ‘apparently’. I’ve not taken anything to do with it and don’t have a clue what the law is with regards to the transfer of assets - not least of all if it with a view to avoid paying care costs. Anyway, I was just curious about it being 4 years in the Barry (8) example and 7 (which now appears to be nonsense) for the care situ. I think the 4 years is actually 5!
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RodgersRevolution
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19 Jun 2018, 11:21 PM
Post #8994
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Flannagan to Sevco. Finally a signing that Mr William 'Women hating' Struth would be proud of (if he'd even care about Sevco).
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Burnley Celt
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20 Jun 2018, 12:15 AM
Post #8995
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Old fud, taking things easy......
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- searcher52
- 19 Jun 2018, 11:20 PM
- danbhoy09
- 19 Jun 2018, 11:04 PM
- searcher52
- 19 Jun 2018, 10:07 PM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
I did say ‘apparently’. I’ve not taken anything to do with it and don’t have a clue what the law is with regards to the transfer of assets - not least of all if it with a view to avoid paying care costs. Anyway, I was just curious about it being 4 years in the Barry (8) example and 7 (which now appears to be nonsense) for the care situ.
I think the 4 years is actually 5! I think you may be right. Not sure about Scotland?
"The Insolvency Service reported recently that a bankrupt had been sentenced to six months in prison for transferring a jointly owned property in the five year period prior to the date of his bankruptcy."
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T_Bhoy
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20 Jun 2018, 05:49 AM
Post #8996
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- Aberdoom Bhoy
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- Gothamcelt
- 19 Jun 2018, 04:47 PM
"The collapse of the Rangers business left thousands of unsecured creditors out of pocket including more than 6000 loyal fans who bought £7.7m worth of debenture seats at Ibrox". Surely it's the same club so they must still have their seats? It goes from the the club, to oldco to rangers business but still not liquidation. Rangers oldco liquidation leaves creditors with £1.4m after 'disgraceful' £20m costMartin Williams @Martin1Williams Spoiler: click to toggle 'Disgraceful' £20m cost of Rangers oldco liquidation leaves creditors with £1.4m FIRMS handling the collapse of Rangers have been accused of profiting from "other people's misfortune" after it emerged they pocketed nearly £20 million in fees while creditors including thousands of fans have received just £1.4m. In what has been branded an "absolute disgrace", it has also emerged there is currently just £8.2m left to distribute to the thousands who lost money as a result of the club's financial implosion. It means that, barring any outstanding legal claims, the maximum creditors could expect to get right now would be around half that taken by liquidators, administrators and solicitors. The club's collapse left thousands of unsecured creditors out of pocket, including more than 6000 loyal fans who bought £7.7m worth of debenture seats at Ibrox. Creditors also ranged from corporate giants such as Coca-Cola to a picture framer in Bearsden and a lady called Susan Thomson who runs a face-painting business and was owed £40. One creditor, who asked not to be named, said: “I personally, having taken legal advice, was not holding out for much more than a few pence in the pound out of the liquidation but it is mind-boggling to hear about the millions that is being made out of other people’s misfortune. “This has got to be wrong. It is clear that we should get far more out of what happened at Rangers than we have currently got and are likely to get.” Since the oldco fell into administration under former owner Craig Whyte in February, 2012, legal firms acting for insolvency firm BDO, the liquidators of RFC 2012 plc have received £10.356 million, while the liquidators bill stood at £4.136 million at April, 2018. The legal bill includes the £353,757 cost of employing counsel in the failed fight to convince the Supreme Court that the club's use of Employee Benefit Trusts to pay players and staff were loans that were not liable for tax. More than £47 million was paid to Rangers players, managers and directors in the EBT scheme administered by the Murray Group, then majority shareholder of the Ibrox club, between 2001 and 2010 by way of tax-free loans. It is understood HMRC has not yet received any of the £72 million in unpaid tax and interest believed to be owed by the liquidated company, as haggling continues over how much they should actually get. BDO had agreed in November to pay an 'interim dividend' of nearly 4p for every pound of debt to unsecured creditors and £1.4 million has been distributed. Before BDO took on the liquidation in October, 2012, Duff and Phelps amassed £3.484 million in fees plus £1.326 million in legal fees over the eight months they acted as joint administrators. Leading legal costs expert Jim Diamond said: "It's an absolute disgrace and an indication in my view and experience of the Scottish legal marketplace which is totally geared up for the professional people without the necessary controls and not to the benefit of the general public and in this case the creditors." The costs lawyer continued:"How can you look at this and have nobody complaining? "Scotland needs to have the politicians have a look at what is going on." The collapse of the Rangers business left thousands of unsecured creditors out of pocket including more than 6000 loyal fans who bought £7.7m worth of debenture seats at Ibrox. Creditors ranged from giants such as Coca-Cola to a picture framer in Bearsden and a lady called Susan Thomson who runs a face-painting business and was owed £40. Papers reveal that £8.224 million of the legal fees including 'outlays' which are solicitors' expenses have so far gone to London-based legal firm Stephenson Harwood and were mostly over the settlement of a claim against London-based Collyer Bristow the solicitors involved in the controversial takeover of the club by Craig Whyte. The liquidators banked £24 milllion from that claim. BDO said £5.4 million of the Collyer Bristow fees were the result of it being "necessary to instruct" the company on a 'no win, no charge' conditional fee arrangement basis. That deal meant that Stephenson Harwood were entitled to their costs plus an extra 75 to 100 per cent to "compensate them for the risk that they would not get paid if the litigation failed". Edinburgh-based Brodies solicitors have had £1,246,738 in fees and outlays of £518,655 so far, while Shepherd and Wedderburn have had £152,272 and £20,875 in outlays and Levy and McRae have had £84,119 and £14,919 outlays. Takeover lawyer Gary Withey from Collyer Bristow, right, says he told Craig Whyte he would be mad to buy Rangers The £8.2 million currently in the creditors' payout pot would be wiped out if the company used by Mr Whyte to buy the club is successful in a new £18 million legal claim on the defunct oldco. The move by Rangers FC Group – the company formerly known as Wavetower that was founded by Mr Whyte - was stopped by BDO from appointing its own administrative receivers to control the in-liquidation firm. The move is the result of Rangers FC Group - now controlled by directors of the defunct investment firm Worthington Group plc - believing it holds a security over the liquidated assets of the oldco RFC 2012 plc. It is claimed the security was reassigned to the company from the Lloyds Banking Group after an £18m bank debt was paid off as a condition of Mr Whyte's £1 purchase of Rangers from Sir David Murray in May, 2011. It was said to be inherited by Mr Whyte after he paid off bank debt using funds raised from the selling off the rights of future season ticket sales to ticket agency Ticketus. Rangers oldco liquidators BDO says it obtained an interim interdict which stopped the receivership appointment. The other outstanding legal action is BDO's £28.9 million claim against Paul Clark and David Whitehouse of Duff and Phelps over their handling of the administration process. Duff & Phelps sold the business and assets of Rangers to a consortium fronted by Charles Green for £5.5 million in June, 2012. Duff & Phelps are fighting the action saying they were surprised and disappointed. Criminal charges against Mr Clark and Mr Whitehouse relating to their involvement with Rangers Football Club plc were dropped in June 2016. BDO declined to comment. http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/16300543._Disgraceful____20m_cost_of_Rangers_oldco_liquidation_leaves_creditors_with___1_4m/
£20m in costs. That is outrageous and completely out of proportion to the value of "work" actually done. The lawyers and accountants involved should have the decency to wear masks like Dick Turpin did. Rangers fans constantly wanted them to fight everything including the big tax case. then when they spend a lot of money its a disgrace. Cant have it all ways.
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lindengreen
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20 Jun 2018, 06:38 AM
Post #8997
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- searcher52
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Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
That's annoying. My wife's gran transferred her house over to my mother in law as, apparently, should the need for care ever rear it's head, they can claw back assets that had been transferred within the last 7 years.
That is one of the most ridiculous myths going about. There is no time limit in the context of avoiding care home costs - not in Scotland. The 7 year ruled I believe did apply once but was changed a few years ago as the state was losing a fortune (our parents literally) now you need good and dear tax lawyers to avoid
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Gothamcelt
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20 Jun 2018, 07:01 AM
Post #8998
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Retired and now a BT Sports pundit
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Gerrard displaying his Scouse humour.
FLAN THE MAN Rangers weigh up Jon Flanagan move with Steven Gerrard willing to listen to any offers over £3.5million for James Tavernier The former Liverpool right-back was on-loan at Bolton last season and is now a free agent after departing Anfield By Colin Duncan RANGERS could be set to move for Jon Flanagan. The full-back was released by Liverpool last month after eight years at Anfield.
Gers boss Steven Gerrard is a huge admirer of his former Kop team-mate, who spent last season on loan at Bolton. SunSport understands the 25-year-old features on a list of potential signing targets drawn up by Gerrard and Ibrox director of football Mark Allen.
Crystal Palace and Swansea are among a number of clubs who are monitoring the right-back’s situation. Gerrard would like to keep Tavernier, but he would be willing to listen to any offers over £3.5million for the Englishman.
https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/2810903/rangers-jon-flanagan-steven-gerrard-james-tavernier/
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Gothamcelt
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20 Jun 2018, 07:22 AM
Post #8999
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Retired and now a BT Sports pundit
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After smith was ordered to hand over papers the case has closed. Settled out of court?
The case was due to be heard at the Court of Session in Edinburgh yesterday but didn’t go ahead. It’s not known whether Smith and the advisers settled out of court but a source confirmed the case was “not proceeding”. https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/ex-rangers-boss-walter-smiths-12747942
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paulfg42
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20 Jun 2018, 08:20 AM
Post #9000
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Fiat justitia ruat caelum
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£3.5m for Tavernier 😂
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