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The All New Sevco Back in Yer Bin Thread; Taking out the trash
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Topic Started: 29 Apr 2018, 04:24 PM (2,086,740 Views)
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Gothamcelt
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26 May 2018, 09:47 AM
Post #6641
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Retired and now a BT Sports pundit
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- DhenBhoy
- 26 May 2018, 09:06 AM
- Larbertbhoy
- 26 May 2018, 09:03 AM
- Darth Balls
- 26 May 2018, 08:53 AM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
I dont mean season tickets. Dhenbhoy was saying match tickets ? Maybe cross wires on my part.
He's selling the matchday tickets in advance, as season tickets. My apologises for not making it crystal clear but I assumed it was easy to understand. Don't think he is selling match day tickets in advance as those that have season tickets for the Broomloan Road stand have had no increase in their season ticket price.
It may be his intention to sell them to the season ticket holders in the Broomloan Road, but he hasn't done it yet. He has only put out another soundbite via the media and not contacted any season ticket holder to ask them if they want a ticket for the two Celtic games or to tell them that their season tickets price has increased by £100.
Someone mentioned about the safety and security issues regarding segregation of Celtic and rangers fans with the cutting our allocation. Imagine Dodgy Dave selling the tickets for these games to his own fans only to be told that he cannot do this because of safety fears and would have to sell the tickets to Celtic.
That would be schadenfreude.
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DhenBhoy
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26 May 2018, 10:04 AM
Post #6642
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Everyone's Fantasy Football first pick
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- Gothamcelt
- 26 May 2018, 09:47 AM
- DhenBhoy
- 26 May 2018, 09:06 AM
- Larbertbhoy
- 26 May 2018, 09:03 AM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
He's selling the matchday tickets in advance, as season tickets. My apologises for not making it crystal clear but I assumed it was easy to understand.
Don't think he is selling match day tickets in advance as those that have season tickets for the Broomloan Road stand have had no increase in their season ticket price. It may be his intention to sell them to the season ticket holders in the Broomloan Road, but he hasn't done it yet. He has only put out another soundbite via the media and not contacted any season ticket holder to ask them if they want a ticket for the two Celtic games or to tell them that their season tickets price has increased by £100. Someone mentioned about the safety and security issues regarding segregation of Celtic and rangers fans with the cutting our allocation. Imagine Dodgy Dave selling the tickets for these games to his own fans only to be told that he cannot do this because of safety fears and would have to sell the tickets to Celtic. That would be schadenfreude. If are not offering the seats the Broomloan is relocated to as ST books there's no financial difference at all.
Those 2 games are one-offs. Either we pay it or they do. There's no additional ST's available, which the huns seem to think there is.
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brianlara67
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26 May 2018, 10:07 AM
Post #6643
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Isn't there a League rule that caps the number of season tickets as a percentage of capacity? That's why our limit is 52000 leaving 8000 walk up seats.
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DhenBhoy
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26 May 2018, 10:15 AM
Post #6644
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Everyone's Fantasy Football first pick
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- brianlara67
- 26 May 2018, 10:07 AM
Isn't there a League rule that caps the number of season tickets as a percentage of capacity? That's why our limit is 52000 leaving 8000 walk up seats. That's what I thought, wasn't sure as I can't see why that would bother the authorities or it needed to a rule?
What is the reason for that ?
Edit: I thought it was a club decision in order that all supporters at least got the chance to see some of the matches rather than limit it to the capacity of the stadium. It also meant they didn't discount every seat. Assuming the match day ticket price exceeds the ST book cost?
Edited by DhenBhoy, 26 May 2018, 10:22 AM.
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Tenenbaum
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26 May 2018, 10:20 AM
Post #6645
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Anybody interested in grabbing a couple of burgers and hittin' the cemetery?
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- Gothamcelt
- 26 May 2018, 08:53 AM
Wee Barry and Chris Sutton have different viewpoints on ticket allocation at Ibrox. There's only one way to sort this...FIGHT! Rangers decision to cut Celtic's ticket allocation was justified as it will generate money for Steven Gerrard - Barry FergusonThe Ibrox legend recognises that the derby atmosphere might change but he says it's the right thing to do. Spoiler: click to toggle ByBarry Ferguson
My attitude to Rangers cutting Celtic’s allocation to 800 tickets? So be it. So much of a fuss is being made over this decision, but if it generates more money for Steven Gerrard, great.
There’s no doubt it’s a watershed moment and the dynamic of these derby games is about to change. Having nearly 9,000 guys wearing the Hoops inside the stadium is all I’ve ever known in these fixtures in Govan. I was brought up as a fan and a player having three quarters of Ibrox filled with the home support and the other quarter to our rivals. I loved nothing more than walking out at Ibrox, looking to my left and seeing all of the Celtic fans packed into the Broomloan Road Stand and they played their part in generating an incredible atmosphere. One of the best you will find anywhere in the football world.
They would traditionally sit behind the goal and it was brilliant when you managed to get a victory but not so good when we lost. When I went to take a corner kick at the Celtic end they would be giving me dogs abuse and it was enjoyable, it’s the type of atmosphere which players love being involved in. They would give me it tight and it only made the victories taste even better.
Celtic will arrive at Ibrox next season and have 50,000 Rangers fans baying for their blood, it's something they should relish and fire them up to play football. Try playing at hostile places such as Galatasaray, Red Star Belgrade or PAOK Salonika. A different level of mayhem and that's a side of the game that I miss.
When I get asked about the noise in an Old Firm match I always say it's completely different being in the middle of the pitch to what it's like sitting in the stands. It can be absolute bedlam and an entirely different ball game so in that sense it's a bit disappointing that it's all about to change. I get the arguments being made for the damage it could do to the atmosphere but who knows what impact having the place almost completely full of Rangers fans will make. We won’t really know what difference these arrangements will make to the dynamic until we sample it. It shouldn’t really be much of an advantage for either side or any kind of major disadvantage. There is also been suggestions that this is a petty move by Rangers but I don’t believe that’s the case. The bottom line as to why Rangers will now look to sell 7,000 more season books is that it will significantly increase revenue this summer.
I’d imagine the cost of a season ticket is just over £350 so by my reckoning that's almost £2.5m in extra revenue, so it makes perfect sense to do that. It’s more money in the coffers for the new manager as he looks to recruit new players and he’ll require significant funds to do that. Having thousands of Celtic fans inside the stadium created a brilliant atmosphere and there is a part of me which is saddened that this will no longer be the case but the bigger picture is about Rangers rebuilding and getting stronger. I loved to hear them singing and rubbing their counterparts up the wrong way, all of that created the atmosphere but let's see how it works next season. The suggestion that Rangers are being petty and this is some kind of tit-for-tat decision isn't a camp I sit in. I'd like to think this move has been triggered purely as a way to create more revenue.
If the motive was anything other than that, then I would be more than disappointed but that's not the way I'm looking at it. Rangers are in a position where they need to generate money in order to push forward and claw Celtic back. So I see why they've done this, it's not about being petty, it's a shrewd financial decision in my view. The demand for extra season books certainly isn't a surprise to me, we are talking about a club where the loyalty of the fans is nothing short of astonishing. There's no doubt the arrival of Gerrard as manager helps but these supporters would still have brought them in the same numbers they have done, it's just what Rangers fans do. You saw that demonstrated clearly when the club found themselves down playing in League Two.
I was never concerned about the ability of Rangers to shift season tickets, if they can sell over 40,000 to watch the likes of Elgin City and Queens Park, achieving record numbers for sales for the Gerrard era was never in much doubt.
They have a top-notch name in as manage and things look to be on the up so I also get why the reduction of tickets for Celtic is a popular move amongst the support. Even after a disappointing season and some very poor results against Celtic, it's now all about the future.
The Steven Gerrard factor has kicked things on to another level.
Rangers board have put Scottish football back years with farcical Celtic ticket decision - Chris SuttonChris is less than impressed with the decision and thinks it will have a detrimental effect on the big games. Spoiler: click to toggle ByChris Sutton Scottish football is on the up product wise and supporter wise. Attendances have risen this season across the board. Football is all about the fans so Rangers’ ticket bombshell to slash Celtic’s Ibrox allocation from 8000 to 800 from next season smacked of one word. Hypocrisy. This is the same Rangers who complained when Hibs cut their quota to just under 1500 briefs when they visited Easter Road on the last day of the Premiership season. Rangers had a right moan at Hibs for the exact same thing. They complained the safety of their supporters was paramount and had helped fill the coffers of clubs such as Hibs on their way back up the leagues. If that is the case then can Rangers guarantee the Celtic supporters safety now at Ibrox if the fans are going to be crammed into a tiny corner of the ground? As for the financial argument, I am not aware of Celtic not selling out their entire allocation for Ibrox regardless of how good or bad the team has been performing. Let’s get one thing clear. This is not good news for the Scottish game. These matches are all about the supporters and atmosphere. While it won’t take away the atmosphere completely it will have a huge impact. Rangers’ reasoning is they want to sell more season tickets. They have just announced record season ticket sales of around 44,000 in the wake of Steven Gerrard’s appointment as manager. Rangers are entitled to do what they see fit for their club and I completely understand that. However this course of action will detract greatly from the big derby games. It won’t make them such a great spectacle in the future. Celtic have responded in a tit-for-tat manner. I actually wish Celtic hadn’t done that and occupied the moral high ground in many respects but they’ve every right to react in whatever way they want. They will justify it by saying they are doing what is right by their supporters. But it’s a real bolt from the blue. I played in these matches and the atmosphere was a big part of the derbies. All the two clubs are doing is starving proper fans who want to go to these matches of sampling that experience. I just can’t believe Scottish football’s been reduced to this after such a good season. It all seems a bit unnecessary. Elsewhere, I see Celtic are still locked in talks to sign Odsonne Edouard from PSG and the early signs appear to be very encouraging. The player is also making the right noises in terms of wanting to stay at Celtic. That would represent another huge boost for Brendan Rodgers’s men coming hot on the heels of Tom Rogic’s new five-year deal. However for me the best piece of business that Celtic could complete this summer would be holding on to Moussa Dembele. The Frenchman may not have had as good a campaign as his debut season but he still bagged an impressive goals tally and helped Celtic have another magnificent season domestically by clinching the double Treble. Whenever Celtic were asked a question in big games this season they turned up. They stepped up domestically whenever they were challenged and Dembele more than played a major part. The one negative was the European campaign. That wasn’t up to scratch. Holding onto the best players would aid them in that quest. Celtic will be tested in the summer and there will be suitors for Dembele but we all want to see them take the next step in Europe now. In order to do that they need to keep hold of Dembele as well as strengthen. If Celtic can keep their best players that in turn will attract better players to the club and enhance their chances of competing in Europe. With the European campaign coming around so quickly I feel Dembele has to stay put in Glasgow if Rodgers’s team are to realise their ambition on that stage. Celtic have got some of their recent transfer windows wrong. They did so in January with players such as Charly Musonda from Chelsea and Marvin Compper arriving from Red Bull Leipzig. Their Champions League build-up starts with summer recruitment and they need to get this transfer window right. https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/rangers-board-put-scottish-football-12598671 Sutton is living in the past. He still thinks Celtic vs Team Playing Out of Ibrokes is important for Scottish football, and gives the fixture more credence than it deserves (yes I still hate the huns, same flies, different shampoo etc). They need the rivalry more than we do, by killing the atmosphere at these games they're spitting in the face of every idiot who bleated on about armageddon, and disgraced themselves bending the rules to keep their precious old firm fixture and the tv money rolling in. This latest measure is short-termism in more ways than one by King, I'll wager quite a lot of folk outwith Celtic will be furious with him.
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popeyed
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26 May 2018, 10:25 AM
Post #6646
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Climbing walls while sittin' in a chair.
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- Forza
- 25 May 2018, 10:39 AM
- JohhnyBhoy
- 25 May 2018, 10:06 AM
- Bhoyball
- 25 May 2018, 09:11 AM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
I think you're looking at it from the wrong perspective. I guess it's easier to police 42k raging sevconians than 49k
Logic surely suggest that not only is it easier to police a smaller away support that has been reduced to a tenth of its previous size, but that the policing bill that comes with it is also likely to be a lot smaller. Still need to police the 7,000 pay on the day huns that have now been funneled into their usual ways in and out, cos they'll still need to segregate outside the stadium and a safe route to the city. Polis will probably kybosh it.
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DhenBhoy
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26 May 2018, 10:27 AM
Post #6647
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Everyone's Fantasy Football first pick
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- Tenenbaum
- 26 May 2018, 10:20 AM
- Gothamcelt
- 26 May 2018, 08:53 AM
Wee Barry and Chris Sutton have different viewpoints on ticket allocation at Ibrox. There's only one way to sort this...FIGHT! Rangers decision to cut Celtic's ticket allocation was justified as it will generate money for Steven Gerrard - Barry FergusonThe Ibrox legend recognises that the derby atmosphere might change but he says it's the right thing to do. Spoiler: click to toggle ByBarry Ferguson
My attitude to Rangers cutting Celtic’s allocation to 800 tickets? So be it. So much of a fuss is being made over this decision, but if it generates more money for Steven Gerrard, great.
There’s no doubt it’s a watershed moment and the dynamic of these derby games is about to change. Having nearly 9,000 guys wearing the Hoops inside the stadium is all I’ve ever known in these fixtures in Govan. I was brought up as a fan and a player having three quarters of Ibrox filled with the home support and the other quarter to our rivals. I loved nothing more than walking out at Ibrox, looking to my left and seeing all of the Celtic fans packed into the Broomloan Road Stand and they played their part in generating an incredible atmosphere. One of the best you will find anywhere in the football world.
They would traditionally sit behind the goal and it was brilliant when you managed to get a victory but not so good when we lost. When I went to take a corner kick at the Celtic end they would be giving me dogs abuse and it was enjoyable, it’s the type of atmosphere which players love being involved in. They would give me it tight and it only made the victories taste even better.
Celtic will arrive at Ibrox next season and have 50,000 Rangers fans baying for their blood, it's something they should relish and fire them up to play football. Try playing at hostile places such as Galatasaray, Red Star Belgrade or PAOK Salonika. A different level of mayhem and that's a side of the game that I miss.
When I get asked about the noise in an Old Firm match I always say it's completely different being in the middle of the pitch to what it's like sitting in the stands. It can be absolute bedlam and an entirely different ball game so in that sense it's a bit disappointing that it's all about to change. I get the arguments being made for the damage it could do to the atmosphere but who knows what impact having the place almost completely full of Rangers fans will make. We won’t really know what difference these arrangements will make to the dynamic until we sample it. It shouldn’t really be much of an advantage for either side or any kind of major disadvantage. There is also been suggestions that this is a petty move by Rangers but I don’t believe that’s the case. The bottom line as to why Rangers will now look to sell 7,000 more season books is that it will significantly increase revenue this summer.
I’d imagine the cost of a season ticket is just over £350 so by my reckoning that's almost £2.5m in extra revenue, so it makes perfect sense to do that. It’s more money in the coffers for the new manager as he looks to recruit new players and he’ll require significant funds to do that. Having thousands of Celtic fans inside the stadium created a brilliant atmosphere and there is a part of me which is saddened that this will no longer be the case but the bigger picture is about Rangers rebuilding and getting stronger. I loved to hear them singing and rubbing their counterparts up the wrong way, all of that created the atmosphere but let's see how it works next season. The suggestion that Rangers are being petty and this is some kind of tit-for-tat decision isn't a camp I sit in. I'd like to think this move has been triggered purely as a way to create more revenue.
If the motive was anything other than that, then I would be more than disappointed but that's not the way I'm looking at it. Rangers are in a position where they need to generate money in order to push forward and claw Celtic back. So I see why they've done this, it's not about being petty, it's a shrewd financial decision in my view. The demand for extra season books certainly isn't a surprise to me, we are talking about a club where the loyalty of the fans is nothing short of astonishing. There's no doubt the arrival of Gerrard as manager helps but these supporters would still have brought them in the same numbers they have done, it's just what Rangers fans do. You saw that demonstrated clearly when the club found themselves down playing in League Two.
I was never concerned about the ability of Rangers to shift season tickets, if they can sell over 40,000 to watch the likes of Elgin City and Queens Park, achieving record numbers for sales for the Gerrard era was never in much doubt.
They have a top-notch name in as manage and things look to be on the up so I also get why the reduction of tickets for Celtic is a popular move amongst the support. Even after a disappointing season and some very poor results against Celtic, it's now all about the future.
The Steven Gerrard factor has kicked things on to another level.
Rangers board have put Scottish football back years with farcical Celtic ticket decision - Chris SuttonChris is less than impressed with the decision and thinks it will have a detrimental effect on the big games. Spoiler: click to toggle ByChris Sutton Scottish football is on the up product wise and supporter wise. Attendances have risen this season across the board. Football is all about the fans so Rangers’ ticket bombshell to slash Celtic’s Ibrox allocation from 8000 to 800 from next season smacked of one word. Hypocrisy. This is the same Rangers who complained when Hibs cut their quota to just under 1500 briefs when they visited Easter Road on the last day of the Premiership season. Rangers had a right moan at Hibs for the exact same thing. They complained the safety of their supporters was paramount and had helped fill the coffers of clubs such as Hibs on their way back up the leagues. If that is the case then can Rangers guarantee the Celtic supporters safety now at Ibrox if the fans are going to be crammed into a tiny corner of the ground? As for the financial argument, I am not aware of Celtic not selling out their entire allocation for Ibrox regardless of how good or bad the team has been performing. Let’s get one thing clear. This is not good news for the Scottish game. These matches are all about the supporters and atmosphere. While it won’t take away the atmosphere completely it will have a huge impact. Rangers’ reasoning is they want to sell more season tickets. They have just announced record season ticket sales of around 44,000 in the wake of Steven Gerrard’s appointment as manager. Rangers are entitled to do what they see fit for their club and I completely understand that. However this course of action will detract greatly from the big derby games. It won’t make them such a great spectacle in the future. Celtic have responded in a tit-for-tat manner. I actually wish Celtic hadn’t done that and occupied the moral high ground in many respects but they’ve every right to react in whatever way they want. They will justify it by saying they are doing what is right by their supporters. But it’s a real bolt from the blue. I played in these matches and the atmosphere was a big part of the derbies. All the two clubs are doing is starving proper fans who want to go to these matches of sampling that experience. I just can’t believe Scottish football’s been reduced to this after such a good season. It all seems a bit unnecessary. Elsewhere, I see Celtic are still locked in talks to sign Odsonne Edouard from PSG and the early signs appear to be very encouraging. The player is also making the right noises in terms of wanting to stay at Celtic. That would represent another huge boost for Brendan Rodgers’s men coming hot on the heels of Tom Rogic’s new five-year deal. However for me the best piece of business that Celtic could complete this summer would be holding on to Moussa Dembele. The Frenchman may not have had as good a campaign as his debut season but he still bagged an impressive goals tally and helped Celtic have another magnificent season domestically by clinching the double Treble. Whenever Celtic were asked a question in big games this season they turned up. They stepped up domestically whenever they were challenged and Dembele more than played a major part. The one negative was the European campaign. That wasn’t up to scratch. Holding onto the best players would aid them in that quest. Celtic will be tested in the summer and there will be suitors for Dembele but we all want to see them take the next step in Europe now. In order to do that they need to keep hold of Dembele as well as strengthen. If Celtic can keep their best players that in turn will attract better players to the club and enhance their chances of competing in Europe. With the European campaign coming around so quickly I feel Dembele has to stay put in Glasgow if Rodgers’s team are to realise their ambition on that stage. Celtic have got some of their recent transfer windows wrong. They did so in January with players such as Charly Musonda from Chelsea and Marvin Compper arriving from Red Bull Leipzig. Their Champions League build-up starts with summer recruitment and they need to get this transfer window right. https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/rangers-board-put-scottish-football-12598671
Sutton is living in the past. He still thinks Celtic vs Team Playing Out of Ibrokes is important for Scottish football, and gives the fixture more credence than it deserves (yes I still hate the huns, same flies, different shampoo etc). They need the rivalry more than we do, by killing the atmosphere at these games they're spitting in the face of every idiot who bleated on about armageddon, and disgraced themselves bending the rules to keep their precious old firm fixture and the tv money rolling in. This latest measure is short-termism in more ways than one by King, I'll wager quite a lot of folk outwith Celtic will be furious with him. In Scotland things may be different.
However the fixture (defunct as it is now) always has been the attraction for the media broadcasters when negotiating any TV deals.
I'm not sure anyone would disagree with that. We may not like it, but that is the reality, imo
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davebhoy
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26 May 2018, 10:40 AM
Post #6648
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- Dhenboy
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Less match day tickets and more season books
- Dhenbhoy
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Those 2 games are one-offs. Either we pay it or they do. There's no additional ST's available, which the huns seem to think there is.
You are Dave King and I claim my £5....
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Tenenbaum
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26 May 2018, 10:45 AM
Post #6649
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Anybody interested in grabbing a couple of burgers and hittin' the cemetery?
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- DhenBhoy
- 26 May 2018, 10:27 AM
- Tenenbaum
- 26 May 2018, 10:20 AM
- Gothamcelt
- 26 May 2018, 08:53 AM
Wee Barry and Chris Sutton have different viewpoints on ticket allocation at Ibrox. There's only one way to sort this...FIGHT! Rangers decision to cut Celtic's ticket allocation was justified as it will generate money for Steven Gerrard - Barry FergusonThe Ibrox legend recognises that the derby atmosphere might change but he says it's the right thing to do. Spoiler: click to toggle ByBarry Ferguson
My attitude to Rangers cutting Celtic’s allocation to 800 tickets? So be it. So much of a fuss is being made over this decision, but if it generates more money for Steven Gerrard, great.
There’s no doubt it’s a watershed moment and the dynamic of these derby games is about to change. Having nearly 9,000 guys wearing the Hoops inside the stadium is all I’ve ever known in these fixtures in Govan. I was brought up as a fan and a player having three quarters of Ibrox filled with the home support and the other quarter to our rivals. I loved nothing more than walking out at Ibrox, looking to my left and seeing all of the Celtic fans packed into the Broomloan Road Stand and they played their part in generating an incredible atmosphere. One of the best you will find anywhere in the football world.
They would traditionally sit behind the goal and it was brilliant when you managed to get a victory but not so good when we lost. When I went to take a corner kick at the Celtic end they would be giving me dogs abuse and it was enjoyable, it’s the type of atmosphere which players love being involved in. They would give me it tight and it only made the victories taste even better.
Celtic will arrive at Ibrox next season and have 50,000 Rangers fans baying for their blood, it's something they should relish and fire them up to play football. Try playing at hostile places such as Galatasaray, Red Star Belgrade or PAOK Salonika. A different level of mayhem and that's a side of the game that I miss.
When I get asked about the noise in an Old Firm match I always say it's completely different being in the middle of the pitch to what it's like sitting in the stands. It can be absolute bedlam and an entirely different ball game so in that sense it's a bit disappointing that it's all about to change. I get the arguments being made for the damage it could do to the atmosphere but who knows what impact having the place almost completely full of Rangers fans will make. We won’t really know what difference these arrangements will make to the dynamic until we sample it. It shouldn’t really be much of an advantage for either side or any kind of major disadvantage. There is also been suggestions that this is a petty move by Rangers but I don’t believe that’s the case. The bottom line as to why Rangers will now look to sell 7,000 more season books is that it will significantly increase revenue this summer.
I’d imagine the cost of a season ticket is just over £350 so by my reckoning that's almost £2.5m in extra revenue, so it makes perfect sense to do that. It’s more money in the coffers for the new manager as he looks to recruit new players and he’ll require significant funds to do that. Having thousands of Celtic fans inside the stadium created a brilliant atmosphere and there is a part of me which is saddened that this will no longer be the case but the bigger picture is about Rangers rebuilding and getting stronger. I loved to hear them singing and rubbing their counterparts up the wrong way, all of that created the atmosphere but let's see how it works next season. The suggestion that Rangers are being petty and this is some kind of tit-for-tat decision isn't a camp I sit in. I'd like to think this move has been triggered purely as a way to create more revenue.
If the motive was anything other than that, then I would be more than disappointed but that's not the way I'm looking at it. Rangers are in a position where they need to generate money in order to push forward and claw Celtic back. So I see why they've done this, it's not about being petty, it's a shrewd financial decision in my view. The demand for extra season books certainly isn't a surprise to me, we are talking about a club where the loyalty of the fans is nothing short of astonishing. There's no doubt the arrival of Gerrard as manager helps but these supporters would still have brought them in the same numbers they have done, it's just what Rangers fans do. You saw that demonstrated clearly when the club found themselves down playing in League Two.
I was never concerned about the ability of Rangers to shift season tickets, if they can sell over 40,000 to watch the likes of Elgin City and Queens Park, achieving record numbers for sales for the Gerrard era was never in much doubt.
They have a top-notch name in as manage and things look to be on the up so I also get why the reduction of tickets for Celtic is a popular move amongst the support. Even after a disappointing season and some very poor results against Celtic, it's now all about the future.
The Steven Gerrard factor has kicked things on to another level.
Rangers board have put Scottish football back years with farcical Celtic ticket decision - Chris SuttonChris is less than impressed with the decision and thinks it will have a detrimental effect on the big games. Spoiler: click to toggle ByChris Sutton Scottish football is on the up product wise and supporter wise. Attendances have risen this season across the board. Football is all about the fans so Rangers’ ticket bombshell to slash Celtic’s Ibrox allocation from 8000 to 800 from next season smacked of one word. Hypocrisy. This is the same Rangers who complained when Hibs cut their quota to just under 1500 briefs when they visited Easter Road on the last day of the Premiership season. Rangers had a right moan at Hibs for the exact same thing. They complained the safety of their supporters was paramount and had helped fill the coffers of clubs such as Hibs on their way back up the leagues. If that is the case then can Rangers guarantee the Celtic supporters safety now at Ibrox if the fans are going to be crammed into a tiny corner of the ground? As for the financial argument, I am not aware of Celtic not selling out their entire allocation for Ibrox regardless of how good or bad the team has been performing. Let’s get one thing clear. This is not good news for the Scottish game. These matches are all about the supporters and atmosphere. While it won’t take away the atmosphere completely it will have a huge impact. Rangers’ reasoning is they want to sell more season tickets. They have just announced record season ticket sales of around 44,000 in the wake of Steven Gerrard’s appointment as manager. Rangers are entitled to do what they see fit for their club and I completely understand that. However this course of action will detract greatly from the big derby games. It won’t make them such a great spectacle in the future. Celtic have responded in a tit-for-tat manner. I actually wish Celtic hadn’t done that and occupied the moral high ground in many respects but they’ve every right to react in whatever way they want. They will justify it by saying they are doing what is right by their supporters. But it’s a real bolt from the blue. I played in these matches and the atmosphere was a big part of the derbies. All the two clubs are doing is starving proper fans who want to go to these matches of sampling that experience. I just can’t believe Scottish football’s been reduced to this after such a good season. It all seems a bit unnecessary. Elsewhere, I see Celtic are still locked in talks to sign Odsonne Edouard from PSG and the early signs appear to be very encouraging. The player is also making the right noises in terms of wanting to stay at Celtic. That would represent another huge boost for Brendan Rodgers’s men coming hot on the heels of Tom Rogic’s new five-year deal. However for me the best piece of business that Celtic could complete this summer would be holding on to Moussa Dembele. The Frenchman may not have had as good a campaign as his debut season but he still bagged an impressive goals tally and helped Celtic have another magnificent season domestically by clinching the double Treble. Whenever Celtic were asked a question in big games this season they turned up. They stepped up domestically whenever they were challenged and Dembele more than played a major part. The one negative was the European campaign. That wasn’t up to scratch. Holding onto the best players would aid them in that quest. Celtic will be tested in the summer and there will be suitors for Dembele but we all want to see them take the next step in Europe now. In order to do that they need to keep hold of Dembele as well as strengthen. If Celtic can keep their best players that in turn will attract better players to the club and enhance their chances of competing in Europe. With the European campaign coming around so quickly I feel Dembele has to stay put in Glasgow if Rodgers’s team are to realise their ambition on that stage. Celtic have got some of their recent transfer windows wrong. They did so in January with players such as Charly Musonda from Chelsea and Marvin Compper arriving from Red Bull Leipzig. Their Champions League build-up starts with summer recruitment and they need to get this transfer window right. https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/rangers-board-put-scottish-football-12598671
Sutton is living in the past. He still thinks Celtic vs Team Playing Out of Ibrokes is important for Scottish football, and gives the fixture more credence than it deserves (yes I still hate the huns, same flies, different shampoo etc). They need the rivalry more than we do, by killing the atmosphere at these games they're spitting in the face of every idiot who bleated on about armageddon, and disgraced themselves bending the rules to keep their precious old firm fixture and the tv money rolling in. This latest measure is short-termism in more ways than one by King, I'll wager quite a lot of folk outwith Celtic will be furious with him.
In Scotland things may be different. However the fixture (defunct as it is now) always has been the attraction for the media broadcasters when negotiating any TV deals. I'm not sure anyone would disagree with that. We may not like it, but that is the reality, imo I think you're agreeing with me here. We don't need that money nearly as much as other teams do. We're insulated by having an expensive squad and multiple revenue sources, including the opportunity to play European football. The huns are shooting themselves in the foot, and probably quite a few other folk too. The one team this will have minimum impact on (and actually help us shed the hated Old Firm association), is us.
Edit: Maybe I'm contradicting myself here by conflating our own interests with Scottish Football. I guess what I mean is that the club this hurts the least is us, and regardless of tv money I think Scottish football will be better off without them.
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johnny88
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26 May 2018, 10:51 AM
Post #6650
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King has just lost his twice-monthly home gate funds that basically pay the electric bill, this could be fun.
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DhenBhoy
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26 May 2018, 11:02 AM
Post #6651
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Everyone's Fantasy Football first pick
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- davebhoy
- 26 May 2018, 10:40 AM
- Dhenboy
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Less match day tickets and more season books
- Dhenbhoy
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Those 2 games are one-offs. Either we pay it or they do. There's no additional ST's available, which the huns seem to think there is.
You are Dave King and I claim my £5.... I'm clearly talking about the "Broonloan seats only" in the latter.
Context is everything ...
I PM you'll a list of questions to answer so I can transfer the fiver. They may seem extensive but trust me.
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GoKartMozart
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26 May 2018, 11:03 AM
Post #6652
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- Tenenbaum
- 26 May 2018, 10:20 AM
- Gothamcelt
- 26 May 2018, 08:53 AM
Wee Barry and Chris Sutton have different viewpoints on ticket allocation at Ibrox. There's only one way to sort this...FIGHT! Rangers decision to cut Celtic's ticket allocation was justified as it will generate money for Steven Gerrard - Barry FergusonThe Ibrox legend recognises that the derby atmosphere might change but he says it's the right thing to do. Spoiler: click to toggle ByBarry Ferguson
My attitude to Rangers cutting Celtic’s allocation to 800 tickets? So be it. So much of a fuss is being made over this decision, but if it generates more money for Steven Gerrard, great.
There’s no doubt it’s a watershed moment and the dynamic of these derby games is about to change. Having nearly 9,000 guys wearing the Hoops inside the stadium is all I’ve ever known in these fixtures in Govan. I was brought up as a fan and a player having three quarters of Ibrox filled with the home support and the other quarter to our rivals. I loved nothing more than walking out at Ibrox, looking to my left and seeing all of the Celtic fans packed into the Broomloan Road Stand and they played their part in generating an incredible atmosphere. One of the best you will find anywhere in the football world.
They would traditionally sit behind the goal and it was brilliant when you managed to get a victory but not so good when we lost. When I went to take a corner kick at the Celtic end they would be giving me dogs abuse and it was enjoyable, it’s the type of atmosphere which players love being involved in. They would give me it tight and it only made the victories taste even better.
Celtic will arrive at Ibrox next season and have 50,000 Rangers fans baying for their blood, it's something they should relish and fire them up to play football. Try playing at hostile places such as Galatasaray, Red Star Belgrade or PAOK Salonika. A different level of mayhem and that's a side of the game that I miss.
When I get asked about the noise in an Old Firm match I always say it's completely different being in the middle of the pitch to what it's like sitting in the stands. It can be absolute bedlam and an entirely different ball game so in that sense it's a bit disappointing that it's all about to change. I get the arguments being made for the damage it could do to the atmosphere but who knows what impact having the place almost completely full of Rangers fans will make. We won’t really know what difference these arrangements will make to the dynamic until we sample it. It shouldn’t really be much of an advantage for either side or any kind of major disadvantage. There is also been suggestions that this is a petty move by Rangers but I don’t believe that’s the case. The bottom line as to why Rangers will now look to sell 7,000 more season books is that it will significantly increase revenue this summer.
I’d imagine the cost of a season ticket is just over £350 so by my reckoning that's almost £2.5m in extra revenue, so it makes perfect sense to do that. It’s more money in the coffers for the new manager as he looks to recruit new players and he’ll require significant funds to do that. Having thousands of Celtic fans inside the stadium created a brilliant atmosphere and there is a part of me which is saddened that this will no longer be the case but the bigger picture is about Rangers rebuilding and getting stronger. I loved to hear them singing and rubbing their counterparts up the wrong way, all of that created the atmosphere but let's see how it works next season. The suggestion that Rangers are being petty and this is some kind of tit-for-tat decision isn't a camp I sit in. I'd like to think this move has been triggered purely as a way to create more revenue.
If the motive was anything other than that, then I would be more than disappointed but that's not the way I'm looking at it. Rangers are in a position where they need to generate money in order to push forward and claw Celtic back. So I see why they've done this, it's not about being petty, it's a shrewd financial decision in my view. The demand for extra season books certainly isn't a surprise to me, we are talking about a club where the loyalty of the fans is nothing short of astonishing. There's no doubt the arrival of Gerrard as manager helps but these supporters would still have brought them in the same numbers they have done, it's just what Rangers fans do. You saw that demonstrated clearly when the club found themselves down playing in League Two.
I was never concerned about the ability of Rangers to shift season tickets, if they can sell over 40,000 to watch the likes of Elgin City and Queens Park, achieving record numbers for sales for the Gerrard era was never in much doubt.
They have a top-notch name in as manage and things look to be on the up so I also get why the reduction of tickets for Celtic is a popular move amongst the support. Even after a disappointing season and some very poor results against Celtic, it's now all about the future.
The Steven Gerrard factor has kicked things on to another level.
Rangers board have put Scottish football back years with farcical Celtic ticket decision - Chris SuttonChris is less than impressed with the decision and thinks it will have a detrimental effect on the big games. Spoiler: click to toggle ByChris Sutton Scottish football is on the up product wise and supporter wise. Attendances have risen this season across the board. Football is all about the fans so Rangers’ ticket bombshell to slash Celtic’s Ibrox allocation from 8000 to 800 from next season smacked of one word. Hypocrisy. This is the same Rangers who complained when Hibs cut their quota to just under 1500 briefs when they visited Easter Road on the last day of the Premiership season. Rangers had a right moan at Hibs for the exact same thing. They complained the safety of their supporters was paramount and had helped fill the coffers of clubs such as Hibs on their way back up the leagues. If that is the case then can Rangers guarantee the Celtic supporters safety now at Ibrox if the fans are going to be crammed into a tiny corner of the ground? As for the financial argument, I am not aware of Celtic not selling out their entire allocation for Ibrox regardless of how good or bad the team has been performing. Let’s get one thing clear. This is not good news for the Scottish game. These matches are all about the supporters and atmosphere. While it won’t take away the atmosphere completely it will have a huge impact. Rangers’ reasoning is they want to sell more season tickets. They have just announced record season ticket sales of around 44,000 in the wake of Steven Gerrard’s appointment as manager. Rangers are entitled to do what they see fit for their club and I completely understand that. However this course of action will detract greatly from the big derby games. It won’t make them such a great spectacle in the future. Celtic have responded in a tit-for-tat manner. I actually wish Celtic hadn’t done that and occupied the moral high ground in many respects but they’ve every right to react in whatever way they want. They will justify it by saying they are doing what is right by their supporters. But it’s a real bolt from the blue. I played in these matches and the atmosphere was a big part of the derbies. All the two clubs are doing is starving proper fans who want to go to these matches of sampling that experience. I just can’t believe Scottish football’s been reduced to this after such a good season. It all seems a bit unnecessary. Elsewhere, I see Celtic are still locked in talks to sign Odsonne Edouard from PSG and the early signs appear to be very encouraging. The player is also making the right noises in terms of wanting to stay at Celtic. That would represent another huge boost for Brendan Rodgers’s men coming hot on the heels of Tom Rogic’s new five-year deal. However for me the best piece of business that Celtic could complete this summer would be holding on to Moussa Dembele. The Frenchman may not have had as good a campaign as his debut season but he still bagged an impressive goals tally and helped Celtic have another magnificent season domestically by clinching the double Treble. Whenever Celtic were asked a question in big games this season they turned up. They stepped up domestically whenever they were challenged and Dembele more than played a major part. The one negative was the European campaign. That wasn’t up to scratch. Holding onto the best players would aid them in that quest. Celtic will be tested in the summer and there will be suitors for Dembele but we all want to see them take the next step in Europe now. In order to do that they need to keep hold of Dembele as well as strengthen. If Celtic can keep their best players that in turn will attract better players to the club and enhance their chances of competing in Europe. With the European campaign coming around so quickly I feel Dembele has to stay put in Glasgow if Rodgers’s team are to realise their ambition on that stage. Celtic have got some of their recent transfer windows wrong. They did so in January with players such as Charly Musonda from Chelsea and Marvin Compper arriving from Red Bull Leipzig. Their Champions League build-up starts with summer recruitment and they need to get this transfer window right. https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/rangers-board-put-scottish-football-12598671
Sutton is living in the past. He still thinks Celtic vs Team Playing Out of Ibrokes is important for Scottish football, and gives the fixture more credence than it deserves (yes I still hate the huns, same flies, different shampoo etc). They need the rivalry more than we do, by killing the atmosphere at these games they're spitting in the face of every idiot who bleated on about armageddon, and disgraced themselves bending the rules to keep their precious old firm fixture and the tv money rolling in. This latest measure is short-termism in more ways than one by King, I'll wager quite a lot of folk outwith Celtic will be furious with him. Barry says that two games against Celtic (without Celtic fans) generates £2.5 million pounds for Gerry fae Liverpool's transfer budget.
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DhenBhoy
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26 May 2018, 11:05 AM
Post #6653
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Everyone's Fantasy Football first pick
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- Tenenbaum
- 26 May 2018, 10:45 AM
- DhenBhoy
- 26 May 2018, 10:27 AM
- Tenenbaum
- 26 May 2018, 10:20 AM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep Rangers decision to cut Celtic's ticket allocation was justified as it will generate money for Steven Gerrard - Barry FergusonThe Ibrox legend recognises that the derby atmosphere might change but he says it's the right thing to do. Spoiler: click to toggle ByBarry Ferguson
My attitude to Rangers cutting Celtic’s allocation to 800 tickets? So be it. So much of a fuss is being made over this decision, but if it generates more money for Steven Gerrard, great.
There’s no doubt it’s a watershed moment and the dynamic of these derby games is about to change. Having nearly 9,000 guys wearing the Hoops inside the stadium is all I’ve ever known in these fixtures in Govan. I was brought up as a fan and a player having three quarters of Ibrox filled with the home support and the other quarter to our rivals. I loved nothing more than walking out at Ibrox, looking to my left and seeing all of the Celtic fans packed into the Broomloan Road Stand and they played their part in generating an incredible atmosphere. One of the best you will find anywhere in the football world.
They would traditionally sit behind the goal and it was brilliant when you managed to get a victory but not so good when we lost. When I went to take a corner kick at the Celtic end they would be giving me dogs abuse and it was enjoyable, it’s the type of atmosphere which players love being involved in. They would give me it tight and it only made the victories taste even better.
Celtic will arrive at Ibrox next season and have 50,000 Rangers fans baying for their blood, it's something they should relish and fire them up to play football. Try playing at hostile places such as Galatasaray, Red Star Belgrade or PAOK Salonika. A different level of mayhem and that's a side of the game that I miss.
When I get asked about the noise in an Old Firm match I always say it's completely different being in the middle of the pitch to what it's like sitting in the stands. It can be absolute bedlam and an entirely different ball game so in that sense it's a bit disappointing that it's all about to change. I get the arguments being made for the damage it could do to the atmosphere but who knows what impact having the place almost completely full of Rangers fans will make. We won’t really know what difference these arrangements will make to the dynamic until we sample it. It shouldn’t really be much of an advantage for either side or any kind of major disadvantage. There is also been suggestions that this is a petty move by Rangers but I don’t believe that’s the case. The bottom line as to why Rangers will now look to sell 7,000 more season books is that it will significantly increase revenue this summer.
I’d imagine the cost of a season ticket is just over £350 so by my reckoning that's almost £2.5m in extra revenue, so it makes perfect sense to do that. It’s more money in the coffers for the new manager as he looks to recruit new players and he’ll require significant funds to do that. Having thousands of Celtic fans inside the stadium created a brilliant atmosphere and there is a part of me which is saddened that this will no longer be the case but the bigger picture is about Rangers rebuilding and getting stronger. I loved to hear them singing and rubbing their counterparts up the wrong way, all of that created the atmosphere but let's see how it works next season. The suggestion that Rangers are being petty and this is some kind of tit-for-tat decision isn't a camp I sit in. I'd like to think this move has been triggered purely as a way to create more revenue.
If the motive was anything other than that, then I would be more than disappointed but that's not the way I'm looking at it. Rangers are in a position where they need to generate money in order to push forward and claw Celtic back. So I see why they've done this, it's not about being petty, it's a shrewd financial decision in my view. The demand for extra season books certainly isn't a surprise to me, we are talking about a club where the loyalty of the fans is nothing short of astonishing. There's no doubt the arrival of Gerrard as manager helps but these supporters would still have brought them in the same numbers they have done, it's just what Rangers fans do. You saw that demonstrated clearly when the club found themselves down playing in League Two.
I was never concerned about the ability of Rangers to shift season tickets, if they can sell over 40,000 to watch the likes of Elgin City and Queens Park, achieving record numbers for sales for the Gerrard era was never in much doubt.
They have a top-notch name in as manage and things look to be on the up so I also get why the reduction of tickets for Celtic is a popular move amongst the support. Even after a disappointing season and some very poor results against Celtic, it's now all about the future.
The Steven Gerrard factor has kicked things on to another level.
Rangers board have put Scottish football back years with farcical Celtic ticket decision - Chris SuttonChris is less than impressed with the decision and thinks it will have a detrimental effect on the big games. Spoiler: click to toggle ByChris Sutton Scottish football is on the up product wise and supporter wise. Attendances have risen this season across the board. Football is all about the fans so Rangers’ ticket bombshell to slash Celtic’s Ibrox allocation from 8000 to 800 from next season smacked of one word. Hypocrisy. This is the same Rangers who complained when Hibs cut their quota to just under 1500 briefs when they visited Easter Road on the last day of the Premiership season. Rangers had a right moan at Hibs for the exact same thing. They complained the safety of their supporters was paramount and had helped fill the coffers of clubs such as Hibs on their way back up the leagues. If that is the case then can Rangers guarantee the Celtic supporters safety now at Ibrox if the fans are going to be crammed into a tiny corner of the ground? As for the financial argument, I am not aware of Celtic not selling out their entire allocation for Ibrox regardless of how good or bad the team has been performing. Let’s get one thing clear. This is not good news for the Scottish game. These matches are all about the supporters and atmosphere. While it won’t take away the atmosphere completely it will have a huge impact. Rangers’ reasoning is they want to sell more season tickets. They have just announced record season ticket sales of around 44,000 in the wake of Steven Gerrard’s appointment as manager. Rangers are entitled to do what they see fit for their club and I completely understand that. However this course of action will detract greatly from the big derby games. It won’t make them such a great spectacle in the future. Celtic have responded in a tit-for-tat manner. I actually wish Celtic hadn’t done that and occupied the moral high ground in many respects but they’ve every right to react in whatever way they want. They will justify it by saying they are doing what is right by their supporters. But it’s a real bolt from the blue. I played in these matches and the atmosphere was a big part of the derbies. All the two clubs are doing is starving proper fans who want to go to these matches of sampling that experience. I just can’t believe Scottish football’s been reduced to this after such a good season. It all seems a bit unnecessary. Elsewhere, I see Celtic are still locked in talks to sign Odsonne Edouard from PSG and the early signs appear to be very encouraging. The player is also making the right noises in terms of wanting to stay at Celtic. That would represent another huge boost for Brendan Rodgers’s men coming hot on the heels of Tom Rogic’s new five-year deal. However for me the best piece of business that Celtic could complete this summer would be holding on to Moussa Dembele. The Frenchman may not have had as good a campaign as his debut season but he still bagged an impressive goals tally and helped Celtic have another magnificent season domestically by clinching the double Treble. Whenever Celtic were asked a question in big games this season they turned up. They stepped up domestically whenever they were challenged and Dembele more than played a major part. The one negative was the European campaign. That wasn’t up to scratch. Holding onto the best players would aid them in that quest. Celtic will be tested in the summer and there will be suitors for Dembele but we all want to see them take the next step in Europe now. In order to do that they need to keep hold of Dembele as well as strengthen. If Celtic can keep their best players that in turn will attract better players to the club and enhance their chances of competing in Europe. With the European campaign coming around so quickly I feel Dembele has to stay put in Glasgow if Rodgers’s team are to realise their ambition on that stage. Celtic have got some of their recent transfer windows wrong. They did so in January with players such as Charly Musonda from Chelsea and Marvin Compper arriving from Red Bull Leipzig. Their Champions League build-up starts with summer recruitment and they need to get this transfer window right. https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/rangers-board-put-scottish-football-12598671
In Scotland things may be different. However the fixture (defunct as it is now) always has been the attraction for the media broadcasters when negotiating any TV deals. I'm not sure anyone would disagree with that. We may not like it, but that is the reality, imo
I think you're agreeing with me here. We don't need that money nearly as much as other teams do. We're insulated by having an expensive squad and multiple revenue sources, including the opportunity to play European football. The huns are shooting themselves in the foot, and probably quite a few other folk too. The one team this will have minimum impact on (and actually help us shed the hated Old Firm association), is us. Edit: Maybe I'm contradicting myself here by conflating our own interests with Scottish Football. I guess what I mean is that the club this hurts the least is us, and regardless of tv money I think Scottish football will be better off without them. Totally agree, we will not notice any real impact.
However for the authorities negotiating rights deals, it is not a tick in the pros column.
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blanco
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26 May 2018, 11:05 AM
Post #6654
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- DhenBhoy
- 26 May 2018, 09:43 AM
- davebhoy
- 26 May 2018, 09:34 AM
- DhenBhoy
- 26 May 2018, 09:02 AM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Tickets for the Broomloan could have been sold without including games against us. So all he will get is 7500 x £50 x 2...an extra £750k. This is not about an extra £3m, it about pandering to the lowest common denominator in their support who do not want to have us still celebrating in their midden with the other three sides empty.
NO: You're looking at it wrong .. even then they wouldn't get anything since we already pay the fifty quid for those seats. They're stating they will release the match day tickets those seats are shifted to as ST books. Less match day tickets and more season books. Those that attend on a less regular basis will have less opportunity to get tickets. Are their season books not capped at 42k at present? They will will rise to 49/50k They claim to sell out the midden for every home game so there can be no extra money unless prices are raised. The only thing this does is front loads the money they would receive on sales of individual match day tickets, provided that that actually do sell more season tickets.
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DhenBhoy
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26 May 2018, 11:16 AM
Post #6655
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Everyone's Fantasy Football first pick
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- blanco
- 26 May 2018, 11:05 AM
- DhenBhoy
- 26 May 2018, 09:43 AM
- davebhoy
- 26 May 2018, 09:34 AM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
NO: You're looking at it wrong .. even then they wouldn't get anything since we already pay the fifty quid for those seats. They're stating they will release the match day tickets those seats are shifted to as ST books. Less match day tickets and more season books. Those that attend on a less regular basis will have less opportunity to get tickets. Are their season books not capped at 42k at present? They will will rise to 49/50k
They claim to sell out the midden for every home game so there can be no extra money unless prices are raised. The only thing this does is front loads the money they would receive on sales of individual match day tickets, provided that that actually do sell more season tickets. That's what I implied.
a) Not sure it will go ahead anyway.
b) There's no additional income, it's only front loaded.
c) If he gets away with it ... he's only doing it to ensure there's minimal financial loss if they walk away (heaven forbid)
There's no upside to this.
a) They get a red face when the cops pull it. b) There's no additional seats, so only the 700/800k upfront that we provide anyway c) He gets an additional 3m upfront which will likely be squandered and they need that to pay the bills throughout the season and then some.
It's smoke and mirrors to ensure they buy their STs ..
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blanco
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26 May 2018, 11:20 AM
Post #6656
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- GoKartMozart
- 26 May 2018, 11:03 AM
- Tenenbaum
- 26 May 2018, 10:20 AM
- Gothamcelt
- 26 May 2018, 08:53 AM
Wee Barry and Chris Sutton have different viewpoints on ticket allocation at Ibrox. There's only one way to sort this...FIGHT! Rangers decision to cut Celtic's ticket allocation was justified as it will generate money for Steven Gerrard - Barry FergusonThe Ibrox legend recognises that the derby atmosphere might change but he says it's the right thing to do. Spoiler: click to toggle ByBarry Ferguson
My attitude to Rangers cutting Celtic’s allocation to 800 tickets? So be it. So much of a fuss is being made over this decision, but if it generates more money for Steven Gerrard, great.
There’s no doubt it’s a watershed moment and the dynamic of these derby games is about to change. Having nearly 9,000 guys wearing the Hoops inside the stadium is all I’ve ever known in these fixtures in Govan. I was brought up as a fan and a player having three quarters of Ibrox filled with the home support and the other quarter to our rivals. I loved nothing more than walking out at Ibrox, looking to my left and seeing all of the Celtic fans packed into the Broomloan Road Stand and they played their part in generating an incredible atmosphere. One of the best you will find anywhere in the football world.
They would traditionally sit behind the goal and it was brilliant when you managed to get a victory but not so good when we lost. When I went to take a corner kick at the Celtic end they would be giving me dogs abuse and it was enjoyable, it’s the type of atmosphere which players love being involved in. They would give me it tight and it only made the victories taste even better.
Celtic will arrive at Ibrox next season and have 50,000 Rangers fans baying for their blood, it's something they should relish and fire them up to play football. Try playing at hostile places such as Galatasaray, Red Star Belgrade or PAOK Salonika. A different level of mayhem and that's a side of the game that I miss.
When I get asked about the noise in an Old Firm match I always say it's completely different being in the middle of the pitch to what it's like sitting in the stands. It can be absolute bedlam and an entirely different ball game so in that sense it's a bit disappointing that it's all about to change. I get the arguments being made for the damage it could do to the atmosphere but who knows what impact having the place almost completely full of Rangers fans will make. We won’t really know what difference these arrangements will make to the dynamic until we sample it. It shouldn’t really be much of an advantage for either side or any kind of major disadvantage. There is also been suggestions that this is a petty move by Rangers but I don’t believe that’s the case. The bottom line as to why Rangers will now look to sell 7,000 more season books is that it will significantly increase revenue this summer.
I’d imagine the cost of a season ticket is just over £350 so by my reckoning that's almost £2.5m in extra revenue, so it makes perfect sense to do that. It’s more money in the coffers for the new manager as he looks to recruit new players and he’ll require significant funds to do that. Having thousands of Celtic fans inside the stadium created a brilliant atmosphere and there is a part of me which is saddened that this will no longer be the case but the bigger picture is about Rangers rebuilding and getting stronger. I loved to hear them singing and rubbing their counterparts up the wrong way, all of that created the atmosphere but let's see how it works next season. The suggestion that Rangers are being petty and this is some kind of tit-for-tat decision isn't a camp I sit in. I'd like to think this move has been triggered purely as a way to create more revenue.
If the motive was anything other than that, then I would be more than disappointed but that's not the way I'm looking at it. Rangers are in a position where they need to generate money in order to push forward and claw Celtic back. So I see why they've done this, it's not about being petty, it's a shrewd financial decision in my view. The demand for extra season books certainly isn't a surprise to me, we are talking about a club where the loyalty of the fans is nothing short of astonishing. There's no doubt the arrival of Gerrard as manager helps but these supporters would still have brought them in the same numbers they have done, it's just what Rangers fans do. You saw that demonstrated clearly when the club found themselves down playing in League Two.
I was never concerned about the ability of Rangers to shift season tickets, if they can sell over 40,000 to watch the likes of Elgin City and Queens Park, achieving record numbers for sales for the Gerrard era was never in much doubt.
They have a top-notch name in as manage and things look to be on the up so I also get why the reduction of tickets for Celtic is a popular move amongst the support. Even after a disappointing season and some very poor results against Celtic, it's now all about the future.
The Steven Gerrard factor has kicked things on to another level.
Rangers board have put Scottish football back years with farcical Celtic ticket decision - Chris SuttonChris is less than impressed with the decision and thinks it will have a detrimental effect on the big games. Spoiler: click to toggle ByChris Sutton Scottish football is on the up product wise and supporter wise. Attendances have risen this season across the board. Football is all about the fans so Rangers’ ticket bombshell to slash Celtic’s Ibrox allocation from 8000 to 800 from next season smacked of one word. Hypocrisy. This is the same Rangers who complained when Hibs cut their quota to just under 1500 briefs when they visited Easter Road on the last day of the Premiership season. Rangers had a right moan at Hibs for the exact same thing. They complained the safety of their supporters was paramount and had helped fill the coffers of clubs such as Hibs on their way back up the leagues. If that is the case then can Rangers guarantee the Celtic supporters safety now at Ibrox if the fans are going to be crammed into a tiny corner of the ground? As for the financial argument, I am not aware of Celtic not selling out their entire allocation for Ibrox regardless of how good or bad the team has been performing. Let’s get one thing clear. This is not good news for the Scottish game. These matches are all about the supporters and atmosphere. While it won’t take away the atmosphere completely it will have a huge impact. Rangers’ reasoning is they want to sell more season tickets. They have just announced record season ticket sales of around 44,000 in the wake of Steven Gerrard’s appointment as manager. Rangers are entitled to do what they see fit for their club and I completely understand that. However this course of action will detract greatly from the big derby games. It won’t make them such a great spectacle in the future. Celtic have responded in a tit-for-tat manner. I actually wish Celtic hadn’t done that and occupied the moral high ground in many respects but they’ve every right to react in whatever way they want. They will justify it by saying they are doing what is right by their supporters. But it’s a real bolt from the blue. I played in these matches and the atmosphere was a big part of the derbies. All the two clubs are doing is starving proper fans who want to go to these matches of sampling that experience. I just can’t believe Scottish football’s been reduced to this after such a good season. It all seems a bit unnecessary. Elsewhere, I see Celtic are still locked in talks to sign Odsonne Edouard from PSG and the early signs appear to be very encouraging. The player is also making the right noises in terms of wanting to stay at Celtic. That would represent another huge boost for Brendan Rodgers’s men coming hot on the heels of Tom Rogic’s new five-year deal. However for me the best piece of business that Celtic could complete this summer would be holding on to Moussa Dembele. The Frenchman may not have had as good a campaign as his debut season but he still bagged an impressive goals tally and helped Celtic have another magnificent season domestically by clinching the double Treble. Whenever Celtic were asked a question in big games this season they turned up. They stepped up domestically whenever they were challenged and Dembele more than played a major part. The one negative was the European campaign. That wasn’t up to scratch. Holding onto the best players would aid them in that quest. Celtic will be tested in the summer and there will be suitors for Dembele but we all want to see them take the next step in Europe now. In order to do that they need to keep hold of Dembele as well as strengthen. If Celtic can keep their best players that in turn will attract better players to the club and enhance their chances of competing in Europe. With the European campaign coming around so quickly I feel Dembele has to stay put in Glasgow if Rodgers’s team are to realise their ambition on that stage. Celtic have got some of their recent transfer windows wrong. They did so in January with players such as Charly Musonda from Chelsea and Marvin Compper arriving from Red Bull Leipzig. Their Champions League build-up starts with summer recruitment and they need to get this transfer window right. https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/rangers-board-put-scottish-football-12598671
Sutton is living in the past. He still thinks Celtic vs Team Playing Out of Ibrokes is important for Scottish football, and gives the fixture more credence than it deserves (yes I still hate the huns, same flies, different shampoo etc). They need the rivalry more than we do, by killing the atmosphere at these games they're spitting in the face of every idiot who bleated on about armageddon, and disgraced themselves bending the rules to keep their precious old firm fixture and the tv money rolling in. This latest measure is short-termism in more ways than one by King, I'll wager quite a lot of folk outwith Celtic will be furious with him.
Barry says that two games against Celtic (without Celtic fans) generates £2.5 million pounds for Gerry fae Liverpool's transfer budget. Is it really any wonder Barry ended up bankrupt with such a grasp on maths. They’ll all be scratching their heads come new year when they’ve spent all the money and there’s no more coming in despite the fact that they’ve sold all these extra season tickets.
They’re all as thick as mince but but king will have them all onside because we’re not laughing at them from the broomloan anymore
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GoKartMozart
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26 May 2018, 11:29 AM
Post #6657
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- blanco
- 26 May 2018, 11:20 AM
- GoKartMozart
- 26 May 2018, 11:03 AM
- Tenenbaum
- 26 May 2018, 10:20 AM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep Rangers decision to cut Celtic's ticket allocation was justified as it will generate money for Steven Gerrard - Barry FergusonThe Ibrox legend recognises that the derby atmosphere might change but he says it's the right thing to do. Spoiler: click to toggle ByBarry Ferguson
My attitude to Rangers cutting Celtic’s allocation to 800 tickets? So be it. So much of a fuss is being made over this decision, but if it generates more money for Steven Gerrard, great.
There’s no doubt it’s a watershed moment and the dynamic of these derby games is about to change. Having nearly 9,000 guys wearing the Hoops inside the stadium is all I’ve ever known in these fixtures in Govan. I was brought up as a fan and a player having three quarters of Ibrox filled with the home support and the other quarter to our rivals. I loved nothing more than walking out at Ibrox, looking to my left and seeing all of the Celtic fans packed into the Broomloan Road Stand and they played their part in generating an incredible atmosphere. One of the best you will find anywhere in the football world.
They would traditionally sit behind the goal and it was brilliant when you managed to get a victory but not so good when we lost. When I went to take a corner kick at the Celtic end they would be giving me dogs abuse and it was enjoyable, it’s the type of atmosphere which players love being involved in. They would give me it tight and it only made the victories taste even better.
Celtic will arrive at Ibrox next season and have 50,000 Rangers fans baying for their blood, it's something they should relish and fire them up to play football. Try playing at hostile places such as Galatasaray, Red Star Belgrade or PAOK Salonika. A different level of mayhem and that's a side of the game that I miss.
When I get asked about the noise in an Old Firm match I always say it's completely different being in the middle of the pitch to what it's like sitting in the stands. It can be absolute bedlam and an entirely different ball game so in that sense it's a bit disappointing that it's all about to change. I get the arguments being made for the damage it could do to the atmosphere but who knows what impact having the place almost completely full of Rangers fans will make. We won’t really know what difference these arrangements will make to the dynamic until we sample it. It shouldn’t really be much of an advantage for either side or any kind of major disadvantage. There is also been suggestions that this is a petty move by Rangers but I don’t believe that’s the case. The bottom line as to why Rangers will now look to sell 7,000 more season books is that it will significantly increase revenue this summer.
I’d imagine the cost of a season ticket is just over £350 so by my reckoning that's almost £2.5m in extra revenue, so it makes perfect sense to do that. It’s more money in the coffers for the new manager as he looks to recruit new players and he’ll require significant funds to do that. Having thousands of Celtic fans inside the stadium created a brilliant atmosphere and there is a part of me which is saddened that this will no longer be the case but the bigger picture is about Rangers rebuilding and getting stronger. I loved to hear them singing and rubbing their counterparts up the wrong way, all of that created the atmosphere but let's see how it works next season. The suggestion that Rangers are being petty and this is some kind of tit-for-tat decision isn't a camp I sit in. I'd like to think this move has been triggered purely as a way to create more revenue.
If the motive was anything other than that, then I would be more than disappointed but that's not the way I'm looking at it. Rangers are in a position where they need to generate money in order to push forward and claw Celtic back. So I see why they've done this, it's not about being petty, it's a shrewd financial decision in my view. The demand for extra season books certainly isn't a surprise to me, we are talking about a club where the loyalty of the fans is nothing short of astonishing. There's no doubt the arrival of Gerrard as manager helps but these supporters would still have brought them in the same numbers they have done, it's just what Rangers fans do. You saw that demonstrated clearly when the club found themselves down playing in League Two.
I was never concerned about the ability of Rangers to shift season tickets, if they can sell over 40,000 to watch the likes of Elgin City and Queens Park, achieving record numbers for sales for the Gerrard era was never in much doubt.
They have a top-notch name in as manage and things look to be on the up so I also get why the reduction of tickets for Celtic is a popular move amongst the support. Even after a disappointing season and some very poor results against Celtic, it's now all about the future.
The Steven Gerrard factor has kicked things on to another level.
Rangers board have put Scottish football back years with farcical Celtic ticket decision - Chris SuttonChris is less than impressed with the decision and thinks it will have a detrimental effect on the big games. Spoiler: click to toggle ByChris Sutton Scottish football is on the up product wise and supporter wise. Attendances have risen this season across the board. Football is all about the fans so Rangers’ ticket bombshell to slash Celtic’s Ibrox allocation from 8000 to 800 from next season smacked of one word. Hypocrisy. This is the same Rangers who complained when Hibs cut their quota to just under 1500 briefs when they visited Easter Road on the last day of the Premiership season. Rangers had a right moan at Hibs for the exact same thing. They complained the safety of their supporters was paramount and had helped fill the coffers of clubs such as Hibs on their way back up the leagues. If that is the case then can Rangers guarantee the Celtic supporters safety now at Ibrox if the fans are going to be crammed into a tiny corner of the ground? As for the financial argument, I am not aware of Celtic not selling out their entire allocation for Ibrox regardless of how good or bad the team has been performing. Let’s get one thing clear. This is not good news for the Scottish game. These matches are all about the supporters and atmosphere. While it won’t take away the atmosphere completely it will have a huge impact. Rangers’ reasoning is they want to sell more season tickets. They have just announced record season ticket sales of around 44,000 in the wake of Steven Gerrard’s appointment as manager. Rangers are entitled to do what they see fit for their club and I completely understand that. However this course of action will detract greatly from the big derby games. It won’t make them such a great spectacle in the future. Celtic have responded in a tit-for-tat manner. I actually wish Celtic hadn’t done that and occupied the moral high ground in many respects but they’ve every right to react in whatever way they want. They will justify it by saying they are doing what is right by their supporters. But it’s a real bolt from the blue. I played in these matches and the atmosphere was a big part of the derbies. All the two clubs are doing is starving proper fans who want to go to these matches of sampling that experience. I just can’t believe Scottish football’s been reduced to this after such a good season. It all seems a bit unnecessary. Elsewhere, I see Celtic are still locked in talks to sign Odsonne Edouard from PSG and the early signs appear to be very encouraging. The player is also making the right noises in terms of wanting to stay at Celtic. That would represent another huge boost for Brendan Rodgers’s men coming hot on the heels of Tom Rogic’s new five-year deal. However for me the best piece of business that Celtic could complete this summer would be holding on to Moussa Dembele. The Frenchman may not have had as good a campaign as his debut season but he still bagged an impressive goals tally and helped Celtic have another magnificent season domestically by clinching the double Treble. Whenever Celtic were asked a question in big games this season they turned up. They stepped up domestically whenever they were challenged and Dembele more than played a major part. The one negative was the European campaign. That wasn’t up to scratch. Holding onto the best players would aid them in that quest. Celtic will be tested in the summer and there will be suitors for Dembele but we all want to see them take the next step in Europe now. In order to do that they need to keep hold of Dembele as well as strengthen. If Celtic can keep their best players that in turn will attract better players to the club and enhance their chances of competing in Europe. With the European campaign coming around so quickly I feel Dembele has to stay put in Glasgow if Rodgers’s team are to realise their ambition on that stage. Celtic have got some of their recent transfer windows wrong. They did so in January with players such as Charly Musonda from Chelsea and Marvin Compper arriving from Red Bull Leipzig. Their Champions League build-up starts with summer recruitment and they need to get this transfer window right. https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/rangers-board-put-scottish-football-12598671
Barry says that two games against Celtic (without Celtic fans) generates £2.5 million pounds for Gerry fae Liverpool's transfer budget.
Is it really any wonder Barry ended up bankrupt with such a grasp on maths. They’ll all be scratching their heads come new year when they’ve spent all the money and there’s no more coming in despite the fact that they’ve sold all these extra season tickets. They’re all as thick as mince but but king will have them all onside because we’re not laughing at them from the broomloan anymore 2 + 2 = WATP
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tenerifetim
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26 May 2018, 11:46 AM
Post #6658
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- henrik larrson
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- blanco
- 26 May 2018, 11:20 AM
- GoKartMozart
- 26 May 2018, 11:03 AM
- Tenenbaum
- 26 May 2018, 10:20 AM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep Rangers decision to cut Celtic's ticket allocation was justified as it will generate money for Steven Gerrard - Barry FergusonThe Ibrox legend recognises that the derby atmosphere might change but he says it's the right thing to do. Spoiler: click to toggle ByBarry Ferguson
My attitude to Rangers cutting Celtic’s allocation to 800 tickets? So be it. So much of a fuss is being made over this decision, but if it generates more money for Steven Gerrard, great.
There’s no doubt it’s a watershed moment and the dynamic of these derby games is about to change. Having nearly 9,000 guys wearing the Hoops inside the stadium is all I’ve ever known in these fixtures in Govan. I was brought up as a fan and a player having three quarters of Ibrox filled with the home support and the other quarter to our rivals. I loved nothing more than walking out at Ibrox, looking to my left and seeing all of the Celtic fans packed into the Broomloan Road Stand and they played their part in generating an incredible atmosphere. One of the best you will find anywhere in the football world.
They would traditionally sit behind the goal and it was brilliant when you managed to get a victory but not so good when we lost. When I went to take a corner kick at the Celtic end they would be giving me dogs abuse and it was enjoyable, it’s the type of atmosphere which players love being involved in. They would give me it tight and it only made the victories taste even better.
Celtic will arrive at Ibrox next season and have 50,000 Rangers fans baying for their blood, it's something they should relish and fire them up to play football. Try playing at hostile places such as Galatasaray, Red Star Belgrade or PAOK Salonika. A different level of mayhem and that's a side of the game that I miss.
When I get asked about the noise in an Old Firm match I always say it's completely different being in the middle of the pitch to what it's like sitting in the stands. It can be absolute bedlam and an entirely different ball game so in that sense it's a bit disappointing that it's all about to change. I get the arguments being made for the damage it could do to the atmosphere but who knows what impact having the place almost completely full of Rangers fans will make. We won’t really know what difference these arrangements will make to the dynamic until we sample it. It shouldn’t really be much of an advantage for either side or any kind of major disadvantage. There is also been suggestions that this is a petty move by Rangers but I don’t believe that’s the case. The bottom line as to why Rangers will now look to sell 7,000 more season books is that it will significantly increase revenue this summer.
I’d imagine the cost of a season ticket is just over £350 so by my reckoning that's almost £2.5m in extra revenue, so it makes perfect sense to do that. It’s more money in the coffers for the new manager as he looks to recruit new players and he’ll require significant funds to do that. Having thousands of Celtic fans inside the stadium created a brilliant atmosphere and there is a part of me which is saddened that this will no longer be the case but the bigger picture is about Rangers rebuilding and getting stronger. I loved to hear them singing and rubbing their counterparts up the wrong way, all of that created the atmosphere but let's see how it works next season. The suggestion that Rangers are being petty and this is some kind of tit-for-tat decision isn't a camp I sit in. I'd like to think this move has been triggered purely as a way to create more revenue.
If the motive was anything other than that, then I would be more than disappointed but that's not the way I'm looking at it. Rangers are in a position where they need to generate money in order to push forward and claw Celtic back. So I see why they've done this, it's not about being petty, it's a shrewd financial decision in my view. The demand for extra season books certainly isn't a surprise to me, we are talking about a club where the loyalty of the fans is nothing short of astonishing. There's no doubt the arrival of Gerrard as manager helps but these supporters would still have brought them in the same numbers they have done, it's just what Rangers fans do. You saw that demonstrated clearly when the club found themselves down playing in League Two.
I was never concerned about the ability of Rangers to shift season tickets, if they can sell over 40,000 to watch the likes of Elgin City and Queens Park, achieving record numbers for sales for the Gerrard era was never in much doubt.
They have a top-notch name in as manage and things look to be on the up so I also get why the reduction of tickets for Celtic is a popular move amongst the support. Even after a disappointing season and some very poor results against Celtic, it's now all about the future.
The Steven Gerrard factor has kicked things on to another level.
Rangers board have put Scottish football back years with farcical Celtic ticket decision - Chris SuttonChris is less than impressed with the decision and thinks it will have a detrimental effect on the big games. Spoiler: click to toggle ByChris Sutton Scottish football is on the up product wise and supporter wise. Attendances have risen this season across the board. Football is all about the fans so Rangers’ ticket bombshell to slash Celtic’s Ibrox allocation from 8000 to 800 from next season smacked of one word. Hypocrisy. This is the same Rangers who complained when Hibs cut their quota to just under 1500 briefs when they visited Easter Road on the last day of the Premiership season. Rangers had a right moan at Hibs for the exact same thing. They complained the safety of their supporters was paramount and had helped fill the coffers of clubs such as Hibs on their way back up the leagues. If that is the case then can Rangers guarantee the Celtic supporters safety now at Ibrox if the fans are going to be crammed into a tiny corner of the ground? As for the financial argument, I am not aware of Celtic not selling out their entire allocation for Ibrox regardless of how good or bad the team has been performing. Let’s get one thing clear. This is not good news for the Scottish game. These matches are all about the supporters and atmosphere. While it won’t take away the atmosphere completely it will have a huge impact. Rangers’ reasoning is they want to sell more season tickets. They have just announced record season ticket sales of around 44,000 in the wake of Steven Gerrard’s appointment as manager. Rangers are entitled to do what they see fit for their club and I completely understand that. However this course of action will detract greatly from the big derby games. It won’t make them such a great spectacle in the future. Celtic have responded in a tit-for-tat manner. I actually wish Celtic hadn’t done that and occupied the moral high ground in many respects but they’ve every right to react in whatever way they want. They will justify it by saying they are doing what is right by their supporters. But it’s a real bolt from the blue. I played in these matches and the atmosphere was a big part of the derbies. All the two clubs are doing is starving proper fans who want to go to these matches of sampling that experience. I just can’t believe Scottish football’s been reduced to this after such a good season. It all seems a bit unnecessary. Elsewhere, I see Celtic are still locked in talks to sign Odsonne Edouard from PSG and the early signs appear to be very encouraging. The player is also making the right noises in terms of wanting to stay at Celtic. That would represent another huge boost for Brendan Rodgers’s men coming hot on the heels of Tom Rogic’s new five-year deal. However for me the best piece of business that Celtic could complete this summer would be holding on to Moussa Dembele. The Frenchman may not have had as good a campaign as his debut season but he still bagged an impressive goals tally and helped Celtic have another magnificent season domestically by clinching the double Treble. Whenever Celtic were asked a question in big games this season they turned up. They stepped up domestically whenever they were challenged and Dembele more than played a major part. The one negative was the European campaign. That wasn’t up to scratch. Holding onto the best players would aid them in that quest. Celtic will be tested in the summer and there will be suitors for Dembele but we all want to see them take the next step in Europe now. In order to do that they need to keep hold of Dembele as well as strengthen. If Celtic can keep their best players that in turn will attract better players to the club and enhance their chances of competing in Europe. With the European campaign coming around so quickly I feel Dembele has to stay put in Glasgow if Rodgers’s team are to realise their ambition on that stage. Celtic have got some of their recent transfer windows wrong. They did so in January with players such as Charly Musonda from Chelsea and Marvin Compper arriving from Red Bull Leipzig. Their Champions League build-up starts with summer recruitment and they need to get this transfer window right. https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/rangers-board-put-scottish-football-12598671
Barry says that two games against Celtic (without Celtic fans) generates £2.5 million pounds for Gerry fae Liverpool's transfer budget.
Is it really any wonder Barry ended up bankrupt with such a grasp on maths. They’ll all be scratching their heads come new year when they’ve spent all the money and there’s no more coming in despite the fact that they’ve sold all these extra season tickets. They’re all as thick as mince but but king will have them all onside because we’re not laughing at them from the broomloan anymore Barry made himself Bankrupt to avoid HMRC taxes - the man's a disgrace & hypocrite !
Transferred a lot to his wife a while ago .
http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/15432374.Ex-Rangers_star_Barry_Ferguson_transferred_luxury_mansion_into_wife_s_name_before_bankruptcy/
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weebaldy
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26 May 2018, 11:52 AM
Post #6659
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We Won the Big One-They Never Will!
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All the huns I have spoken to think it's a great thing to cut the ticket allocation. They think the income from the move is good for the club however, they also say that they are sick of watching us enjoy ourselves after humping them at their midden which, I think, is the main reason for this move. I have not spoken to one single Celtic fan yet who thinks its a good decision yet which speaks volumes
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davebhoy
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26 May 2018, 12:01 PM
Post #6660
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- Dhenboy
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He's selling the match day tickets as Season books ... those are the extra 7-8k ST's that are being mentioned as raising 3m (I assume).
- Dhenbhoy
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Those 2 games are one-offs. Either we pay it or they do. There's no additional ST's available, which the huns seem to think there is.
Keep the fiver. If the questions are as confusing as your posts I won't have time to answer them. I'm nearly 64.......
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