Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Welcome to Kerrydale Street. We hope you enjoy your visit.

You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use.

If you decide to register, please be aware that we don't accept email addresses from free web accounts like gmail, Hotmail, live.co.uk etc. Sorry, but almost all of the abuse and spam that we get is from free web accounts. The software on the forum will automatically block any requests using a free email account.

Upon Registration, you will be given access to all our varied Forums, and you will be expected to comply with our fairly stringent Rules and Regulations. Meantime, enjoy your visit

If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
Champions League Qualifying 2018/19; 1st Round - Alashkert (ARM). Away first. 2nd Round - Valur Reykjavic (ISL) or Rosenborg (NOR). Home first.
Topic Started: 27 Feb 2018, 10:42 AM (112,717 Views)
kevtic
Member Avatar
Jam back on.

Franakamura
28 Feb 2018, 02:16 PM
Champions league can go eff itself as a competition.

With this kinda structure it's losing credibility.
I think that ship sailed long ago.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Tauriskos
First team training
[ *  *  * ]
In CL, I'd rather watch Ludogorets, BATE and HJK than some boring team like Barcelona, City or Napoli who didn't win their respective league.

The elite teams from top leagues are waaaaaaay richer than the rest now. CL lost credibility because of it, imagine a league where a team has 10-times more revenue than the rest, such a league would be boring, without credibility, its titles meaningless and blah, blah... Oh, wait a minute.

Bottom line is simple, people complain against everything regarding euro competitions, because the setup doesn't favor Celtic (enough). That's the real bottom-line. It's a bit annoying, and a bit funny.
Edited by Tauriskos, 28 Feb 2018, 03:18 PM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Miscellaneous67
First team training
[ *  *  * ]
Tauriskos
28 Feb 2018, 03:18 PM
In CL, I'd rather watch Ludogorets, BATE and HJK than some boring team like Barcelona, City or Napoli who didn't win their respective league.

The elite teams from top leagues are waaaaaaay richer than the rest now. CL lost credibility because of it, imagine a league where a team has 10-times more revenue than the rest, such a league would be boring, without credibility, its titles meaningless and blah, blah... Oh, wait a minute.

Bottom line is simple, people complain against everything regarding euro competitions, because the setup doesn't favor Celtic (enough). That's the real bottom-line. It's a bit annoying, and a bit funny.
It's way beyond the fact that the set-up doesn't favour Celtic. It's that the current set-up and upcoming changes are making a mockery of the "Champions" league. If you win your league that should be rewarded in some way, you shouldn't have to play 8 games to get into the group stage when a team finishing 4th in England, Spain, Italy, or Germany needs to play 2 to achieve the same result. It actively puts Celtic at a disadvantage in the competition - by the time our first Champions League group game comes around we've already played 8 games more than the Pot 1 and 2 teams and don't even get me started on what the schedule does to our summer "break". I think people are annoyed not at the fact Celtic aren't being favoured but at the fact that it nowhere near resembles a level playing field.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Tauriskos
First team training
[ *  *  * ]
It's just called Champion's league, it's not really only for champions, if you didn't notice it yet it's really the competition for the best European teams, champions or not.

Putting your Celtic lens down, you could see that #5 in England etc could claim to be disadvantaged too, they are better than winner of mid-level leagues but they don't stand a chance qualifying for the competition of the best European teams.

The elite teams bring money to the table, you and teams like yours take money off the table. Games like Bayern-PSG earn money, not games Celtic-Anderlecht (let's be realistic, only audiences in Scotland and Belgium watch it), and certainly not games like Ludogorets-HJK Helsinki. You take 30M+ each year being part of it, but this money is earned mostly by those elite teams, which are forced to share part of what they would earn from TVs due to solidarity principle.

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Mickeybhoy84
Member Avatar
Living the dream
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
If they want to call it the Champions League then they shouldn’t be giving automatic entry to clubs who haven’t won a trophy in years. The likes of Spurs, who haven’t won a major trophy* since the early 90s shouldn’t be able to waltz straight into the groups.

*I’m not counting the League Cup as a major trophy. Many other leagues only play one cup competition so it’s only fair to class the FA Cup as Englands only major cup competition.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Tauriskos
First team training
[ *  *  * ]
When I wrote about you people complaining because the setup doens't favor Celtic, I thought in a sense, that all reasoning and unhappiness and complaining IS JUST BASED ON what it does to Celtic. Well, the competition is not named UEFA Celtic's Champions league. Yeah, right, you heard it here first.

Here's an example. There needs to be a change for qualifying to group stages (because... Celtic). We need some other teams to be directly in the group stage instead of best teams of the best leagues (because... well, because Celtic). Let's have a rule if a club won it once it qualifies always to the group stages (because... can it be more obvious?)
That's fantastic example. Let's not consider what change is bad or good, let's just consider if it favors Celtic or not. This would be bad change, btw. In Serbia there's great rivalry between Red Star and Partizan. They are somehow equal historically, lately Partizan is better. Let's say they have annual revenue of 10M euro, and group stage would bring 30M. Red Star won the European championship once. So, winning the Serbian league, Partizan would get another chance to get embarrassed in qualifications. Red star would get a winning lottery ticket of triple their annual revenue. That would skew this rivalry forever.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Forza
Considering retirement
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Tauriskos
28 Feb 2018, 03:18 PM
In CL, I'd rather watch Ludogorets, BATE and HJK than some boring team like Barcelona, City or Napoli who didn't win their respective league.

The elite teams from top leagues are waaaaaaay richer than the rest now. CL lost credibility because of it, imagine a league where a team has 10-times more revenue than the rest, such a league would be boring, without credibility, its titles meaningless and blah, blah... Oh, wait a minute.

Bottom line is simple, people complain against everything regarding euro competitions, because the setup doesn't favor Celtic (enough). That's the real bottom-line. It's a bit annoying, and a bit funny.
It doesn't favour any club from any country ranked 5 and under. It certainly doesn't favour any club from any country ranked 11 and under.

That includes the champions and aspiring future champions of Czech Rep, Switzerland, Netherlands, Greece, Austria, Croatia, Romania, Denmark, Sweden, Scotland, Norway, Serbia and the rest.

There are 55 countries in UEFA. This transparent greed ensures half of the group stages, and likely as many as 18 of 32 participants will come from four countries, with possibly 22 coming from SIX countries.

The reality of this is that the drawbridge is being pulled up. Italy was teetering on the brink of going below fourth place. It would take an enormous collapse in performance for any of the top four countries to be caught now. That's the way they wanted it, that's the way it will happen.

So no, the bottom line is not a complaint because it doesn't favour Celtic. At all. The consequences are the same for us as a number of other clubs that have achieved a great deal in European competition.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
green_equals_silver
Member Avatar
Bobinho9
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Tauriskos
28 Feb 2018, 04:06 PM
Putting your Celtic lens down, you could see that #5 in England etc could claim to be disadvantaged too, they are better than winner of mid-level leagues but they don't stand a chance qualifying for the competition of the best European teams.
That's debatable - you don't see the 5th placed team in England hoovering up the Europa League every - or any - year
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Forza
Considering retirement
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Tauriskos
28 Feb 2018, 04:17 PM
When I wrote about you people complaining because the setup doens't favor Celtic, I thought in a sense, that all reasoning and unhappiness and complaining IS JUST BASED ON what it does to Celtic. Well, the competition is not named UEFA Celtic's Champions league. Yeah, right, you heard it here first.

Here's an example. There needs to be a change for qualifying to group stages (because... Celtic). We need some other teams to be directly in the group stage instead of best teams of the best leagues (because... well, because Celtic). Let's have a rule if a club won it once it qualifies always to the group stages (because... can it be more obvious?)
That's fantastic example. Let's not consider what change is bad or good, let's just consider if it favors Celtic or not. This would be bad change, btw. In Serbia there's great rivalry between Red Star and Partizan. They are somehow equal historically, lately Partizan is better. Let's say they have annual revenue of 10M euro, and group stage would bring 30M. Red Star won the European championship once. So, winning the Serbian league, Partizan would get another chance to get embarrassed in qualifications. Red star would get a winning lottery ticket of triple their annual revenue. That would skew this rivalry forever.
Everyone who posts on here, literally everyone, accepts that the current three qualifying rounds that the Scottish champions face to get to the Champions League is as a result of a historically low country co-efficient for Scotland that has killed us in the rankings.

What you are saying - which is complete gibberish - is that UEFA are more than entitled to now make that four qualifying rounds because...well it's not the Celtic Champions League, or something like that.

This change affects 90% of countries in UEFA and the clubs that aspire to European competition, and ensures that the vast majority of teams will be playing multiple qualifiers from early July onwards. EIGHT games to be negotiated in the heat of July and August on consecutive midweeks criss crossing Europe, all to qualify for a SIX game group stage. I'd go as far as saying it is probably the most absurd thing in modern professional sport.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
puroresu_boy
First-team starter
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Tauriskos
28 Feb 2018, 03:18 PM
In CL, I'd rather watch Ludogorets, BATE and HJK than some boring team like Barcelona, City or Napoli who didn't win their respective league.

The elite teams from top leagues are waaaaaaay richer than the rest now. CL lost credibility because of it, imagine a league where a team has 10-times more revenue than the rest, such a league would be boring, without credibility, its titles meaningless and blah, blah... Oh, wait a minute.

Bottom line is simple, people complain against everything regarding euro competitions, because the setup doesn't favor Celtic (enough). That's the real bottom-line. It's a bit annoying, and a bit funny.
I think the times of league champions from anywhere getting in are long gone and I agree with that.

The competition would be even more of a farce if it was just league champions. I have no problem with the top nations getting multiple entrants however I do have an issue with making it as hard as possible for teams from smaller nations to get in.

There has to be a better balance for the haves and have's nots.

Quote:
 
It's just called Champion's league, it's not really only for champions, if you didn't notice it yet it's really the competition for the best European teams, champions or not.

Putting your Celtic lens down, you could see that #5 in England etc could claim to be disadvantaged too, they are better than winner of mid-level leagues but they don't stand a chance qualifying for the competition of the best European teams.

The elite teams bring money to the table, you and teams like yours take money off the table. Games like Bayern-PSG earn money, not games Celtic-Anderlecht (let's be realistic, only audiences in Scotland and Belgium watch it), and certainly not games like Ludogorets-HJK Helsinki. You take 30M+ each year being part of it, but this money is earned mostly by those elite teams, which are forced to share part of what they would earn from TVs due to solidarity principle.


There would be more money if there was a Superleague of the top 4 teams from the top 5 countries playing all over the world but I think we can all agree that isn't what we would like to see.

Most people would agree the competition is better for having more elite teams however that doesn't mean UEFA should disregard everyone else. UEFA did this because the clubs at the top wanted it not the other way round.

Quote:
 
Putting your Celtic lens down, you could see that #5 in England etc could claim to be disadvantaged too, they are better than winner of mid-level leagues but they don't stand a chance qualifying for the competition of the best European teams.


Not really when there are 4 spaces for them fight for. That's more than enough opportunity.
Edited by puroresu_boy, 28 Feb 2018, 04:39 PM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Bobby Peru
Member Avatar
The Maestro

green_equals_silver
28 Feb 2018, 04:25 PM
Tauriskos
28 Feb 2018, 04:06 PM
Putting your Celtic lens down, you could see that #5 in England etc could claim to be disadvantaged too, they are better than winner of mid-level leagues but they don't stand a chance qualifying for the competition of the best European teams.
That's debatable - you don't see the 5th placed team in England hoovering up the Europa League every - or any - year
What do you mean?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Forza
Considering retirement
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
By the way it is worth repeating again: as well as this, ECA members now have at least half of the membership of the UEFA Executive and Club Competitions Committees.

So if you are hopeful of future change that may benefit countries down the food chain, whether it's the CL or EL group stages, they have got an effective veto ahead of every cycle for any set of proposals that may redress the balance.

They also now control a company that deals with how everything relating to the two competitions are sold. Because that went well when FIFA did it more than a decade ago. :ffs:
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
green_equals_silver
Member Avatar
Bobinho9
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Bobby Peru
28 Feb 2018, 04:31 PM
green_equals_silver
28 Feb 2018, 04:25 PM
Tauriskos
28 Feb 2018, 04:06 PM
Putting your Celtic lens down, you could see that #5 in England etc could claim to be disadvantaged too, they are better than winner of mid-level leagues but they don't stand a chance qualifying for the competition of the best European teams.
That's debatable - you don't see the 5th placed team in England hoovering up the Europa League every - or any - year
What do you mean?
This assumption that the #5 team in England (Europa league spot) is better than winners of mid-level leagues, geography shouldn't dictate who the best teams are
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Bobby Peru
Member Avatar
The Maestro

green_equals_silver
28 Feb 2018, 04:38 PM
Bobby Peru
28 Feb 2018, 04:31 PM
green_equals_silver
28 Feb 2018, 04:25 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
What do you mean?
This assumption that the #5 team in England (Europa league spot) is better than winners of mid-level leagues, geography shouldn't dictate who the best teams are
Ok. :thumbsup:

I thought it was about the sixth best team in England last year winning the Europa League.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Shuggie Edvaldsson
Member Avatar
Club Captain
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
puroresu_boy
28 Feb 2018, 04:28 PM
Tauriskos
28 Feb 2018, 03:18 PM
In CL, I'd rather watch Ludogorets, BATE and HJK than some boring team like Barcelona, City or Napoli who didn't win their respective league.

The elite teams from top leagues are waaaaaaay richer than the rest now. CL lost credibility because of it, imagine a league where a team has 10-times more revenue than the rest, such a league would be boring, without credibility, its titles meaningless and blah, blah... Oh, wait a minute.

Bottom line is simple, people complain against everything regarding euro competitions, because the setup doesn't favor Celtic (enough). That's the real bottom-line. It's a bit annoying, and a bit funny.
I think the times of league champions from anywhere getting in are long gone and I agree with that.

The competition would be even more of a farce if it was just league champions. I have no problem with the top nations getting multiple entrants however I do have an issue with making it as hard as possible for teams from smaller nations to get in.

There has to be a better balance for the haves and have's nots.
Indeed. You could make the counter argument that the previous tournament was absurdly unbalanced. We once played Dundalk and Real Madrid in the same year. Barcelona presumably didn't qualify that year; nor did at least three or four very big English, Italian and German clubs as well as any number of clubs that would have given Dundalk a thrashing (which we didn't... ;) ). So I think there is a valid argument to be made for allowing some of those clubs in. The problems we have now are--firstly, entrance is no longer linked to an association's performance, but is rather granted by fiat; secondly, there has been a simultaneous effort to make it much harder for clubs from smaller, weaker associations such that qualification is now a pipe dream for many. The pendulum has swung far too far in the opposite direction, and that needs to be addressed.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Rawheid_Rhex
Member Avatar
First name on the team-sheet
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Why don't they just have a Barca, Bayern, City, PSG & Real round robin and get to feck
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Bobby Peru
Member Avatar
The Maestro

It's a different tournament now. Best idea is just to let the top 32 from the main leagues play in their own competition call it the Elite league or something and have a proper champions league for everyone else (Maybe the 32 champions of countries ranked 9 to 40 or something, still have Group stages then knockouts) then have a Europa League style comp for everyone else.

Would be more enjoyable for everyone.

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
puroresu_boy
First-team starter
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Bobby Peru
28 Feb 2018, 04:50 PM
It's a different tournament now. Best idea is just to let the top 32 from the main leagues play in their own competition call it the Elite league or something and have a proper champions league for everyone else (Maybe the 32 champions of countries ranked 9 to 40 or something, still have Group stages then knockouts) then have a Europa League style comp for everyone else.

Would be more enjoyable for everyone.

Nobody would watch it.

A 'proper' champions league doesn't exist without the best teams in Europe.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Forza
Considering retirement
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Bobby Peru
28 Feb 2018, 04:39 PM
green_equals_silver
28 Feb 2018, 04:38 PM
Bobby Peru
28 Feb 2018, 04:31 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
This assumption that the #5 team in England (Europa league spot) is better than winners of mid-level leagues, geography shouldn't dictate who the best teams are
Ok. :thumbsup:

I thought it was about the sixth best team in England last year winning the Europa League.
They had two defeats and three draws in their last six league games from late April onwards, dropping 12 out of 18 points. It was a sixth place league position they arguably only found themselves in because they felt they could prioritise the Europa League as a route towards CL qualification. Without it I think you see them go full tilt at their run in fixtures.

Another disastrous addition to UEFA competitions. Stuff like this can simply cheapen some aspects of a domestic league season.
Edited by Forza, 28 Feb 2018, 04:56 PM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
green_equals_silver
Member Avatar
Bobinho9
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
puroresu_boy
28 Feb 2018, 04:53 PM
Bobby Peru
28 Feb 2018, 04:50 PM
It's a different tournament now. Best idea is just to let the top 32 from the main leagues play in their own competition call it the Elite league or something and have a proper champions league for everyone else (Maybe the 32 champions of countries ranked 9 to 40 or something, still have Group stages then knockouts) then have a Europa League style comp for everyone else.

Would be more enjoyable for everyone.

Nobody would watch it.

A 'proper' champions league doesn't exist without the best teams in Europe.
Yet they're all seeded in a way that the biggest teams avoid each other until most likely the last 16... so why have the best teams and not make them play each other? It's garbage.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Celtic Football Club Discussion Forum · Next Topic »
Add Reply