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Champions League Qualifying 2018/19; 1st Round - Alashkert (ARM). Away first. 2nd Round - Valur Reykjavic (ISL) or Rosenborg (NOR). Home first.
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Topic Started: 27 Feb 2018, 10:42 AM (112,718 Views)
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idyllwild
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27 Feb 2018, 11:23 PM
Post #121
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- Dannybhoy95
- 27 Feb 2018, 11:13 PM
- idyllwild
- 27 Feb 2018, 09:57 PM
Same as every other cup tournament setup? Have some rounds before the 32? If there’s 128 teams enter it, a first round takes it down to 64 and a second round takes it down to 32. Dead easy.
Ok. We've got the 55 Champions. Where we pulling the other 73 teams from? Wait, what?
You said it wasn’t workable to have all non-champions play qualifiers. It is easily workable. Take the 14-16 of them out of the direct entry to the group stages and put them in an earlier qualifying round.
Am I missing something that makes this complicated?
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rpceltic
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27 Feb 2018, 11:35 PM
Post #122
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First name on the team-sheet
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- aldo
- 27 Feb 2018, 10:41 PM
- Hairytoes
- 27 Feb 2018, 09:45 PM
Where I really start struggling to understand why the smaller Nations put up with this rigged system, is that the big 4 get entry based on TV revenue - the small Nations end up being excluded based on TV revenue...but can't televise their own games, when the Big 4 are playing amongst themselves.
is it still a thing, that only CL games can be televised, on nights when CL games are being played?
I mean, that coupled with the set 20 odd points before even playing, is really very very underhand & I can't see why the smaller Nations stand for it.
I guess it's because nobody is really in it "for the good of the game". Self serving blazers with National Associations don't want to jeopardise their junkets to Nyon, and the bigger clubs in those small countries want a chance to get into the groups stages just for the money, regardless of the hammerings they'll take....no one really gives a eff. In an ideal world, every Celtic side would at least try to live up to the club's proud European heritage and try to progress as far as it could. Indeed, Celtic should always try to be the best it can be, in domestic or European competition, but our CL attempts under Brendan has produced profound, demoralising defeats against financially doped superpowers we never really had a chance of competing with, and which has caused a crippling fixture schedule that has exhausted our players and, consequently, lowered the quality of our domestic game. I really doubt if it's worth it anymore. What lingering magic that remains of those famous 'Big European Nights at Celtic Park' has been all but obliterated by demolitions at the hands of a financial freakshow like PSG and their ilk. It's not sport, it's not competition; just a money spinning scam for members of a rich, powerful, elite club of UEFA officials, English/Spanish/Italian/German/French leagues, and sundry media. This 'for the good of the game' mantra (I know it FIFA's but UEFA punt that kind of pish too) has never rung more hollow. Let those financially doped, Harlem Globetrotter, Galatico-freakshow muthaphuckas have their own fantasy league, with £1bn prize money, their own PPV TV channel at £50 per game, broadcast at 3.30 on a Tuesday morning for the far eastern market; no relegation and they end up eating themselves. And let the clubs who live within their means have a Champions League of League Champions. There's no romance in this anymore. It's pretty sh ite, really.
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TheScotsman
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27 Feb 2018, 11:38 PM
Post #123
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Everyone's Fantasy Football first pick
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- DICEMAN
- 27 Feb 2018, 12:43 PM
- Scotty_Bhoy_7
- 27 Feb 2018, 12:34 PM
The worst thing for me is the Italians getting 4 places.
Outwith Juve, what the eff have Italian teams done in recent years to mitigate 4 automatic places??
Indeed! With the rules on coefficient points for qualifying too, it makes it much harder to knock any country out of the top 4. A ridiculous scenario. It's about time clubs from smaller countries told Uefa to shove it and break away. That’s not going to hurt them one bit. And in their mind anyone that leaves can easily be replaced by any other country’s similar teams
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station
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27 Feb 2018, 11:45 PM
Post #124
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Everyone's Fantasy Football first pick
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- rpceltic
- 27 Feb 2018, 11:35 PM
- aldo
- 27 Feb 2018, 10:41 PM
- Hairytoes
- 27 Feb 2018, 09:45 PM
Where I really start struggling to understand why the smaller Nations put up with this rigged system, is that the big 4 get entry based on TV revenue - the small Nations end up being excluded based on TV revenue...but can't televise their own games, when the Big 4 are playing amongst themselves.
is it still a thing, that only CL games can be televised, on nights when CL games are being played?
I mean, that coupled with the set 20 odd points before even playing, is really very very underhand & I can't see why the smaller Nations stand for it.
I guess it's because nobody is really in it "for the good of the game". Self serving blazers with National Associations don't want to jeopardise their junkets to Nyon, and the bigger clubs in those small countries want a chance to get into the groups stages just for the money, regardless of the hammerings they'll take....no one really gives a eff. In an ideal world, every Celtic side would at least try to live up to the club's proud European heritage and try to progress as far as it could. Indeed, Celtic should always try to be the best it can be, in domestic or European competition, but our CL attempts under Brendan has produced profound, demoralising defeats against financially doped superpowers we never really had a chance of competing with, and which has caused a crippling fixture schedule that has exhausted our players and, consequently, lowered the quality of our domestic game. I really doubt if it's worth it anymore. What lingering magic that remains of those famous 'Big European Nights at Celtic Park' has been all but obliterated by demolitions at the hands of a financial freakshow like PSG and their ilk. It's not sport, it's not competition; just a money spinning scam for members of a rich, powerful, elite club of UEFA officials, English/Spanish/Italian/German/French leagues, and sundry media. This 'for the good of the game' mantra (I know it FIFA's but UEFA punt that kind of pish too) has never rung more hollow. Let those financially doped, Harlem Globetrotter, Galatico-freakshow muthaphuckas have their own fantasy league, with £1bn prize money, their own PPV TV channel at £50 per game, broadcast at 3.30 on a Tuesday morning for the far eastern market; no relegation and they end up eating themselves. And let the clubs who live within their means have a Champions League of League Champions. There's no romance in this anymore. It's pretty sh ite, really. Have to agree also I’m afraid. Of a Sunday now I watch junior football,back to basics .
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Mrs HF4Ls Biggest fan
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27 Feb 2018, 11:53 PM
Post #125
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- moravcik67
- 27 Feb 2018, 08:40 PM
Bunged a big thread up on Twitter about this earlier about what it means for Celtic, should we win the league. Here's the jist of it. - An extra qualifying round - One less qualifying spot in the Champions route - The champions of the 11th/12th ranked nation now have to qualify (depending on who wins the CL) So more and better teams playing more games for less qualifying places. It's also a brutal schedule. We'd start on the 10th/11th July, and play 8 games over 8 successive midweeks. We played 8 games to reach the final in 1967, ffs. If we're knocked out of the CL qualifying in the Playoff, we go straight to the Europa group stage as before. Knocked out earlier and we go into the next round of a newly created "Champions only" qualifying route in the Europa League. So in Europa qualifying, we would only face other teams knocked out of the CL qualifying. It raises the prospect of drawing the same team in both CL and EL qualifying. #letfootball win. Here's a diagram showing how it works. Qualifying Routes for CL & EL Think I've bored everyone with this plenty of times in the past. But the calculation of the coefficient has changed. Now only our own results matter. We no longer get 20% of the national coefficient added. This helps us, because we provide 70% of all scottish coefficient points anyway. Before the change we could find ourselves behind teams from the large countries who only featured sporadically in Europe, but were higher in the rankings just because they came from a big successful country. The downside to that is that if we manage to get ourselves in Pot 3 in the CL, we could end up with some big names below us in Pot 4 - the Milan teams, for example. Here's how qualifying would look if the season ended today. This is based on the CL winner also qualifying directly for the group stage, meaning the Czech Champion doesn't need to qualify. How qualifying looks now This is probably as good as it gets for us - with Basel, Olympiakos, Ludogorets, Copenhagen, Legia and Steaua not included. But of these, only Copenhagen is so far back that they won't be able to turn it around. Here's how it could look if those teams win their league. How qualifying could look As you can see, it doesn't take much for us to be potentially unseeded in the playoff round. Plenty of things can change, though. So it's likely we won't know for sure where we stand until the end of the season. We might end up relying on teams being knocked out in earlier rounds. One last thing. The draws for each round take place before the previous round has been completed. This could lead to strange ties if unseeded teams take on the coefficient of a seeded team they knock out. Can't think of a plausible method of doing it other than than, given the timescales involved. Outstanding piece of work
Grim reading though
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paulfg42
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28 Feb 2018, 12:00 AM
Post #126
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Fiat justitia ruat caelum
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The concept of ‘fair competition’! 🙄
The sheer brass neck of the UEFA suits.
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Dannybhoy95
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28 Feb 2018, 12:21 AM
Post #127
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- idyllwild
- 27 Feb 2018, 11:23 PM
Wait, what? You said it wasn’t workable to have all non-champions play qualifiers. It is easily workable. Take the 14-16 of them out of the direct entry to the group stages and put them in an earlier qualifying round. Am I missing something that makes this complicated? Dunno, man. It could well be me over complicating things.
Here's the OP "All non champions should be going through at least one qualifier to get into the competition."
Ok that's fine. What happens with the 55 Champions? Are they given entry or do some champions have to qualify?
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Stephane_Mahe
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28 Feb 2018, 12:38 AM
Post #128
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- Dannybhoy95
- 28 Feb 2018, 12:21 AM
- idyllwild
- 27 Feb 2018, 11:23 PM
Wait, what? You said it wasn’t workable to have all non-champions play qualifiers. It is easily workable. Take the 14-16 of them out of the direct entry to the group stages and put them in an earlier qualifying round. Am I missing something that makes this complicated?
Dunno, man. It could well be me over complicating things. Here's the OP "All non champions should be going through at least one qualifier to get into the competition." Ok that's fine. What happens with the 55 Champions? Are they given entry or do some champions have to qualify? All non champions having to qualify and all champions automatically qualifying aren’t the same thing.
Edit - what I mean is, someone thinking that if you’re not a champion should you need to qualify doesn’t necessarily also think that all champions should automatically qualify.
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idyllwild
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28 Feb 2018, 08:06 AM
Post #129
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- Dannybhoy95
- 28 Feb 2018, 12:21 AM
- idyllwild
- 27 Feb 2018, 11:23 PM
Wait, what? You said it wasn’t workable to have all non-champions play qualifiers. It is easily workable. Take the 14-16 of them out of the direct entry to the group stages and put them in an earlier qualifying round. Am I missing something that makes this complicated?
Dunno, man. It could well be me over complicating things. Here's the OP "All non champions should be going through at least one qualifier to get into the competition." Ok that's fine. What happens with the 55 Champions? Are they given entry or do some champions have to qualify? Same as they are now, maybe even give a few more direct entry in a few of the spaces vacated by non-champions.
None of that makes it unworkable to give non-champions a qualifier though, which is what was being discussed.
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Tenenbaum
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28 Feb 2018, 09:37 AM
Post #130
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Anybody interested in grabbing a couple of burgers and hittin' the cemetery?
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If it wasn't for the money I wouldn't give a hoot about the CL. Would rather play in the EL where we have a chance of being competitive.
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GanleyBhoy95
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28 Feb 2018, 10:19 AM
Post #131
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- Dannybhoy95
- 28 Feb 2018, 12:21 AM
- idyllwild
- 27 Feb 2018, 11:23 PM
Wait, what? You said it wasn’t workable to have all non-champions play qualifiers. It is easily workable. Take the 14-16 of them out of the direct entry to the group stages and put them in an earlier qualifying round. Am I missing something that makes this complicated?
Dunno, man. It could well be me over complicating things. Here's the OP "All non champions should be going through at least one qualifier to get into the competition." Ok that's fine. What happens with the 55 Champions? Are they given entry or do some champions have to qualify? Well for talk sake, say the top 16 champions get an automatic spot, and the holders and the EL winners will likely be from a top 16 country so that'll be the top 18 champions automatically qualified most years. That leaves 37 teams in the champions route, the odd number makes it hard but I'm sure there could be a system put in place to give say, 6 of the next best champions. That'll be 24 teams decided and then the final 8 spots could be played for by a set of qualifiers containing all the runners up.
Obviously this us just a very basic view cause I don't know the ins and outs of the whole system but I'm sure there's some way it can be managed to allow for at least 50% of the club's to be actual champions of their country. Would also increase the number of 'elite' sides in the Europa league. I'd also scrap the 3rd place dropout into the Europa league and give a fairer amount of split between the prize money for both competitions.
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Monsieur Nailz
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28 Feb 2018, 10:30 AM
Post #132
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- station
- 27 Feb 2018, 11:45 PM
- rpceltic
- 27 Feb 2018, 11:35 PM
- aldo
- 27 Feb 2018, 10:41 PM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Have to agree also I’m afraid. Of a Sunday now I watch junior football,back to basics . I haven't watched a CL game - including finals - that we haven't been involved in for 3 or 4 seasons now, I think.
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Timdom come
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28 Feb 2018, 10:34 AM
Post #133
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- rpceltic
- 27 Feb 2018, 11:35 PM
- aldo
- 27 Feb 2018, 10:41 PM
- Hairytoes
- 27 Feb 2018, 09:45 PM
Where I really start struggling to understand why the smaller Nations put up with this rigged system, is that the big 4 get entry based on TV revenue - the small Nations end up being excluded based on TV revenue...but can't televise their own games, when the Big 4 are playing amongst themselves.
is it still a thing, that only CL games can be televised, on nights when CL games are being played?
I mean, that coupled with the set 20 odd points before even playing, is really very very underhand & I can't see why the smaller Nations stand for it.
I guess it's because nobody is really in it "for the good of the game". Self serving blazers with National Associations don't want to jeopardise their junkets to Nyon, and the bigger clubs in those small countries want a chance to get into the groups stages just for the money, regardless of the hammerings they'll take....no one really gives a eff. In an ideal world, every Celtic side would at least try to live up to the club's proud European heritage and try to progress as far as it could. Indeed, Celtic should always try to be the best it can be, in domestic or European competition, but our CL attempts under Brendan has produced profound, demoralising defeats against financially doped superpowers we never really had a chance of competing with, and which has caused a crippling fixture schedule that has exhausted our players and, consequently, lowered the quality of our domestic game. I really doubt if it's worth it anymore. What lingering magic that remains of those famous 'Big European Nights at Celtic Park' has been all but obliterated by demolitions at the hands of a financial freakshow like PSG and their ilk. It's not sport, it's not competition; just a money spinning scam for members of a rich, powerful, elite club of UEFA officials, English/Spanish/Italian/German/French leagues, and sundry media. This 'for the good of the game' mantra (I know it FIFA's but UEFA punt that kind of pish too) has never rung more hollow. Let those financially doped, Harlem Globetrotter, Galatico-freakshow muthaphuckas have their own fantasy league, with £1bn prize money, their own PPV TV channel at £50 per game, broadcast at 3.30 on a Tuesday morning for the far eastern market; no relegation and they end up eating themselves. And let the clubs who live within their means have a Champions League of League Champions. There's no romance in this anymore. It's pretty sh ite, really. Yip. In it for the cash, which is important to for us to dominate locally, but that's about it.
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Forza
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28 Feb 2018, 10:51 AM
Post #134
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The current access list arrangements combined with massive revenue accrued through either domestic or Champions League tv deals, has already created Last 16 cakewalks like Porto 0-5 Liverpool, Basel 0-4 Manchester City, Bayern 5-0 Besiktas.
This is what they have already visited on this competition at the so called elite stage! Three dead rubber second legs that will be avoided like the plague by most neutrals watching in, the world over.
The startling thing is that UEFA and all of the compliant national associations have actually willingly signed up to intensify this horribly skewed farce. More disparity, more cakewalks, far fewer competitive games.
What is telling is just how poorly organised reps from the countries below Italy or France have been in lobbying or simply outright blocking this. People like Lawwell talk a good game about Europa League expansion, playing more games in Europe, getting a better competitive and financial balance. It is hot air. He and his Dutch, Belgian, Portuguese, Polish, Swiss, Czech peers et al, have done the square route of nothing about this.
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green_equals_silver
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28 Feb 2018, 11:34 AM
Post #135
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It's not a competition anymore, there is less than no chance for 99% of the teams aiming to qualify for this tournament. UEFA have hijacked this tournament to appeal to sponsors and keep the money flowing, football may well be an entertainment business but it's no longer a sport.
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kevtic
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28 Feb 2018, 11:35 AM
Post #136
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Jam back on.
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I see they are also changing the kick off times and are going to be staggered with games kicking off at 5.55pm and 8pm.
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/european/champions-league-europa-kick-off-times-uefa-changes-qualification-2018-19-season-a8230441.html
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bigdavie
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28 Feb 2018, 12:34 PM
Post #137
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Another bit on qualification is we will now have even more teams from the so called bigger leagues automatically in the group stages while finishing maybe 20+points behind their own champions.
I think a few years back someone like Sevilla or Valencia got a CL place or at worst only one qualifier after finishing something like 40 points behind Barca.
Champions League my arse.
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aldo
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28 Feb 2018, 12:49 PM
Post #138
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And that's the way we like it...
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- kevtic
- 28 Feb 2018, 11:35 AM
Not at all surprising in a set up polluted by greed. What's next? Amending matches 3 'halves' (you know what I mean) of 30 minutes, or 4 of 20 minutes, just to milk more money out of TV sponsors? An actual football match itself and those who turn up to support it are irrelevant.
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pieol
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28 Feb 2018, 12:59 PM
Post #139
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- GanleyBhoy95
- 28 Feb 2018, 10:19 AM
- Dannybhoy95
- 28 Feb 2018, 12:21 AM
- idyllwild
- 27 Feb 2018, 11:23 PM
Wait, what? You said it wasn’t workable to have all non-champions play qualifiers. It is easily workable. Take the 14-16 of them out of the direct entry to the group stages and put them in an earlier qualifying round. Am I missing something that makes this complicated?
Dunno, man. It could well be me over complicating things. Here's the OP "All non champions should be going through at least one qualifier to get into the competition." Ok that's fine. What happens with the 55 Champions? Are they given entry or do some champions have to qualify?
Well for talk sake, say the top 16 champions get an automatic spot, and the holders and the EL winners will likely be from a top 16 country so that'll be the top 18 champions automatically qualified most years. That leaves 37 teams in the champions route, the odd number makes it hard but I'm sure there could be a system put in place to give say, 6 of the next best champions. That'll be 24 teams decided and then the final 8 spots could be played for by a set of qualifiers containing all the runners up. Obviously this us just a very basic view cause I don't know the ins and outs of the whole system but I'm sure there's some way it can be managed to allow for at least 50% of the club's to be actual champions of their country. Would also increase the number of 'elite' sides in the Europa league. I'd also scrap the 3rd place dropout into the Europa league and give a fairer amount of split between the prize money for both competitions. Have you seen the EL last 16. A very decent level of teams. If you drop more elite teams into the EL, the danger is it becomes more appealing to the supporters. UEFA will never allow the CL to be demeaned.
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Franakamura
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28 Feb 2018, 02:16 PM
Post #140
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Champions league can go eff itself as a competition.
With this kinda structure it's losing credibility.
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