Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Welcome to Kerrydale Street. We hope you enjoy your visit.

You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use.

If you decide to register, please be aware that we don't accept email addresses from free web accounts like gmail, Hotmail, live.co.uk etc. Sorry, but almost all of the abuse and spam that we get is from free web accounts. The software on the forum will automatically block any requests using a free email account.

Upon Registration, you will be given access to all our varied Forums, and you will be expected to comply with our fairly stringent Rules and Regulations. Meantime, enjoy your visit

If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
The Media
Topic Started: 1 Nov 2017, 11:12 PM (581,128 Views)
PMSW
First-team starter
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Dempele
19 Feb 2018, 08:18 PM
SwavBhoy
19 Feb 2018, 01:55 PM
Daily Record is hardly a fair and balanced paper ffs. Do I have sympathy for those that will lose their job? Yes, of course (Apart from some of the hacks). But by and large it's news content is biased and it's sports content is certainly biased.

It's downfall is it's own doing. I won't shed any tears when it finally goes. I really don't understand why any Celtic fan still buys it.
The annoying thing is, those same hacks will likely find it quite easy to get paid jobs doing a similar thing elsewhere. The office staff etc less so.
If we ever need an example of how bad and backward the Scottish sports media is, then the fact that keech has won the journalist of the year on a few occasions is the main one. He even won it the year he told us that Sir Craig of Whyte was a billionaire.

One thing is for sure. If one outlet goes tits up, they will be looked after as long as they sing from the sevco hymn sheet. That little idiot Tanner is a recent example of this. He's worming his way back in already.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
diablo14
Member Avatar
Expensive Overseas Pish
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Where's all this record in trouble stuff coming from? Is it an acute issue or just people commenting on the gradual decline?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Quiet Assasin
Member Avatar
..for the maintenance of dinner tables for the children and the unemployed
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
diablo14
19 Feb 2018, 09:23 PM
Where's all this record in trouble stuff coming from? Is it an acute issue or just people commenting on the gradual decline?
Circulation down the pan and the top rat has jumped the sinking ship.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
williemaleywashisname
Member Avatar
Occasional Substitute
[ *  *  *  * ]
Who's watching or recording the BBC programme, ' How the Celts saved Britain'. on at 11:00 o'clock. I can save you the bother,it's not about the Famous Glasgow Celtic nor the adventures in Lisbon. Anyway don't want to spoil the ending for you all but it's no gonna end end in extra time :ot:
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Hellas67
Member Avatar
Club Captain
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
FFS Now the DR has taken to watching Si Ferry's open goal interview on youtube and writing an article on it....THIS is what is wrong with the MSM they a re too effing lazy to get their own journalists out on the road to look for stories, either big stories or page fillers and rely on what they see on social media to fill out their papers. I'd love to get a gig at the DR, sit at home in ma jammies having a few beers whilst trawling t'internet for other peoples articles/interviews and reporting on that???
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Smiley
Member Avatar
Off treasure hunting in Holland
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Grafenwalder
19 Feb 2018, 07:13 PM
So we have to mourn the demise of a rag that, only last week, was pretty much tweeting a girfuy at the death of a 36-year old guy because they thought that's what would appeal to their chosen demograph.

Cry me a river.
That's not really what happened at all.

But speaking of the Record, their back page has a headline 'Zenit to win it' and a picture of Neil Lennon. The story is actually about Lenny backing Celtic to go all the way in the Europa League.

The problem the Record has is not enough staff, loads of the ones who are there are undertrained, digital staff who tweet and post with little oversight. Headlines like that aren't malicious, they're just stupid. For all The Sun and the Mail are maligned they don't make a fraction of the errors the Record do.

20 years ago a sub took time and care to come up with a headline, it was proof read by two or three colleagues, it went to the chief sub, then the sports editor. Now a headline is written as quickly as possible and is lucky if it's seen by someone other than the person who wrote it before it goes off stone.

Digital copy is even more roughshod. Things are being tweeted out under the banner of The Independent, once one of the most trusted papers in the UK that are absolute baloney because the people doing digital are straight out of uni and are being asked to come up with stupid amounts of traffic.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Gunner
Member Avatar
I'll play anywhere, as long as I get a game!
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Smiley
20 Feb 2018, 11:01 AM
Grafenwalder
19 Feb 2018, 07:13 PM
So we have to mourn the demise of a rag that, only last week, was pretty much tweeting a girfuy at the death of a 36-year old guy because they thought that's what would appeal to their chosen demograph.

Cry me a river.
That's not really what happened at all.

But speaking of the Record, their back page has a headline 'Zenit to win it' and a picture of Neil Lennon. The story is actually about Lenny backing Celtic to go all the way in the Europa League.

The problem the Record has is not enough staff, loads of the ones who are there are undertrained, digital staff who tweet and post with little oversight. Headlines like that aren't malicious, they're just stupid. For all The Sun and the Mail are maligned they don't make a fraction of the errors the Record do.

20 years ago a sub took time and care to come up with a headline, it was proof read by two or three colleagues, it went to the chief sub, then the sports editor. Now a headline is written as quickly as possible and is lucky if it's seen by someone other than the person who wrote it before it goes off stone.

Digital copy is even more roughshod. Things are being tweeted out under the banner of The Independent, once one of the most trusted papers in the UK that are absolute baloney because the people doing digital are straight out of uni and are being asked to come up with stupid amounts of traffic.
Red tops compete in a world where being first is more important than accuracy.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Jungle
Member Avatar
Getting on a bit
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Quiet Assasin
19 Feb 2018, 09:24 PM
diablo14
19 Feb 2018, 09:23 PM
Where's all this record in trouble stuff coming from? Is it an acute issue or just people commenting on the gradual decline?
Circulation down the pan and the top rat has jumped the sinking ship.
Added to circulation dropping like a stone, their costs will be very high, relatively, to present income - the rates on that new office empire will be huge alone.

I’m not sure that circulation will be first to tip them or any newspaper, advertising movement to different platforms could be that trigger. So if you don’t wish to support such an organisation through any issues you may have with them then stop clicking, a click is worth more to them now than a hard copy purchase.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Gunner
Member Avatar
I'll play anywhere, as long as I get a game!
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Jungle
20 Feb 2018, 11:19 AM
Quiet Assasin
19 Feb 2018, 09:24 PM
diablo14
19 Feb 2018, 09:23 PM
Where's all this record in trouble stuff coming from? Is it an acute issue or just people commenting on the gradual decline?
Circulation down the pan and the top rat has jumped the sinking ship.
Added to circulation dropping like a stone, their costs will be very high, relatively, to present income - the rates on that new office empire will be huge alone.

I’m not sure that circulation will be first to tip them or any newspaper, advertising movement to different platforms could be that trigger. So if you don’t wish to support such an organisation through any issues you may have with them then stop clicking, a click is worth more to them now than a hard copy purchase.
They rent the top floor of their offices out, so office costs will be somewhat supported by that.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
SwavBhoy
Member Avatar
Getting on a bit
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
One sharp cookie
19 Feb 2018, 02:55 PM
SwavBhoy
19 Feb 2018, 01:55 PM
Daily Record is hardly a fair and balanced paper ffs. Do I have sympathy for those that will lose their job? Yes, of course (Apart from some of the hacks). But by and large it's news content is biased and it's sports content is certainly biased.

It's downfall is it's own doing. I won't shed any tears when it finally goes. I really don't understand why any Celtic fan still buys it.
When you say their news content is “biased”, what exactly do you mean? Privately owned newspapers are under no more obligation than the Celtic View to act neutral. And they don’t pretend otherwise when it comes to news and politics - that’s why papers like the Record feel perfectly comfortable telling their readers who they’re backing in general elections, referendums, etc. It’s not the BBC; they’re allowed to have views and leave their readers to decide whether to go along with them or not. Sport is different in that I can’t think of any newspaper that would admit to favouring certain clubs, but there’s certainly nothing preventing them from doing so if they wished.
I'm not saying that they are obliged to act neutral. But by choosing a football or political side for preferencial treatment, it will costs them sales. So perhaps they should have been neutral.

Over the last handful of years alone, I look back at Jabba's final column and all the other shampooe that has spewed out of that hun ridden sports desk and I am expected to mourn the loss of it. Nah, sorry.


Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Smiley
Member Avatar
Off treasure hunting in Holland
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Gunner
20 Feb 2018, 11:09 AM
Smiley
20 Feb 2018, 11:01 AM
Grafenwalder
19 Feb 2018, 07:13 PM
So we have to mourn the demise of a rag that, only last week, was pretty much tweeting a girfuy at the death of a 36-year old guy because they thought that's what would appeal to their chosen demograph.

Cry me a river.
That's not really what happened at all.

But speaking of the Record, their back page has a headline 'Zenit to win it' and a picture of Neil Lennon. The story is actually about Lenny backing Celtic to go all the way in the Europa League.

The problem the Record has is not enough staff, loads of the ones who are there are undertrained, digital staff who tweet and post with little oversight. Headlines like that aren't malicious, they're just stupid. For all The Sun and the Mail are maligned they don't make a fraction of the errors the Record do.

20 years ago a sub took time and care to come up with a headline, it was proof read by two or three colleagues, it went to the chief sub, then the sports editor. Now a headline is written as quickly as possible and is lucky if it's seen by someone other than the person who wrote it before it goes off stone.

Digital copy is even more roughshod. Things are being tweeted out under the banner of The Independent, once one of the most trusted papers in the UK that are absolute baloney because the people doing digital are straight out of uni and are being asked to come up with stupid amounts of traffic.
Red tops compete in a world where being first is more important than accuracy.
It's just money. Someone mentioned Si Ferry's interview being ripped off. The Record weren't first with the interview but it's dirt cheap copy. Music to the accountants' ears.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
san meegs
Member Avatar
...
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Gunner
20 Feb 2018, 11:20 AM
Jungle
20 Feb 2018, 11:19 AM
Quiet Assasin
19 Feb 2018, 09:24 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Added to circulation dropping like a stone, their costs will be very high, relatively, to present income - the rates on that new office empire will be huge alone.

I’m not sure that circulation will be first to tip them or any newspaper, advertising movement to different platforms could be that trigger. So if you don’t wish to support such an organisation through any issues you may have with them then stop clicking, a click is worth more to them now than a hard copy purchase.
They rent the top floor of their offices out, so office costs will be somewhat supported by that.
I had to go get a video edited two weeks ago and the guy we used ran his company out of the bottom floor of the Record/Trinity Mirror building. Says there's many like him doing the same as there's so much space. Said they also get quite a lot of work from the Record for the Sports video blogs they do etc.

Also had the pleasure of seeing Jackson holding court in the staff canteen. Was giving an interview to an English visitor about the Hun debacle from 2012 onwards. Tongue had to be bitten :lol:
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Corky Buczek
Member Avatar
Trolololo
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Smiley
20 Feb 2018, 11:01 AM
Grafenwalder
19 Feb 2018, 07:13 PM
So we have to mourn the demise of a rag that, only last week, was pretty much tweeting a girfuy at the death of a 36-year old guy because they thought that's what would appeal to their chosen demograph.

Cry me a river.
That's not really what happened at all.

But speaking of the Record, their back page has a headline 'Zenit to win it' and a picture of Neil Lennon. The story is actually about Lenny backing Celtic to go all the way in the Europa League.

The problem the Record has is not enough staff, loads of the ones who are there are undertrained, digital staff who tweet and post with little oversight. Headlines like that aren't malicious, they're just stupid. For all The Sun and the Mail are maligned they don't make a fraction of the errors the Record do.

20 years ago a sub took time and care to come up with a headline, it was proof read by two or three colleagues, it went to the chief sub, then the sports editor. Now a headline is written as quickly as possible and is lucky if it's seen by someone other than the person who wrote it before it goes off stone.

Digital copy is even more roughshod. Things are being tweeted out under the banner of The Independent, once one of the most trusted papers in the UK that are absolute baloney because the people doing digital are straight out of uni and are being asked to come up with stupid amounts of traffic.
You're correct and its not just a problem confined to print media. Media companies in general are hiring folk with little experience - on rotten terms and conditions - and they are making the same mistakes as you describe - particularly in the social media spin offs.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Torquemada
Off treasure hunting in Holland
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Listening to the Sportsound podcast from last night gave an insight into the hun mindset that pervades the BBC sports department. The question was, "Do we now have a title race?" Michael Stewart scoffed at the question, saying how can we ask that when Celtic actually increased their lead at the weekend. But Kenny Mac was having none of that, insisting it was a legitimate question. Chick Young and James McFadden both thought not yet, but it was interesting to hear that a title race is only a title race when the zombies are second. I was hoping Stewart would make that connection but he didn't.

To then listen to McIntyre try to manufacture an issue out of Brendan's observation that Tommy Wright must be frustrated that his team can play like they did on Sunday but not have won since December 16 when they beat Rangers was just amazing. He compared it to Levein having a go at Scott Brown and accused Rodgers of hypocrisy. A piece of work is our Kenny.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
asterisk_years
First team training
[ *  *  * ]
Torquemada
20 Feb 2018, 12:15 PM
Listening to the Sportsound podcast from last night gave an insight into the hun mindset that pervades the BBC sports department. The question was, "Do we now have a title race?" Michael Stewart scoffed at the question, saying how can we ask that when Celtic actually increased their lead at the weekend. But Kenny Mac was having none of that, insisting it was a legitimate question. Chick Young and James McFadden both thought not yet, but it was interesting to hear that a title race is only a title race when the zombies are second. I was hoping Stewart would make that connection but he didn't.

To then listen to McIntyre try to manufacture an issue out of Brendan's observation that Tommy Wright must be frustrated that his team can play like they did on Sunday but not have won since December 16 when they beat Rangers was just amazing. He compared it to Levein having a go at Scott Brown and accused Rodgers of hypocrisy. A piece of work is our Kenny.
It was a point worth discussing. I can't go "Mikey" to be honest. He gets credit for being forthright but he's a real try-hard.

Last night was a good example; He really thought he was onto something especially contrary and clever when he wasn't. He just kept repeating it over and over. He's a dumb dumb.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Gunner
Member Avatar
I'll play anywhere, as long as I get a game!
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Smiley
20 Feb 2018, 11:55 AM
Gunner
20 Feb 2018, 11:09 AM
Smiley
20 Feb 2018, 11:01 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Red tops compete in a world where being first is more important than accuracy.
It's just money. Someone mentioned Si Ferry's interview being ripped off. The Record weren't first with the interview but it's dirt cheap copy. Music to the accountants' ears.
Its being seen to be first. Everything is news now.. it's lazy journalism. Most 'digital reporters' scour social media for anything that remotely could be newsworthy. But that's what news is these days.. everyone does it - even most of the bloggers. Talkingbaws for example, 99% of their stuff is just ripped from social media.

If someone of any note posts anything online, it's a story. It's given 300 words, chopped up, battered on a page with 5 ads and a video that's got a pre-roll on before it. This could be the sun, record, times or most blogs out there... be it footy accums, talkingbaws, joe... and so on.

Si Ferry is very 'of the moment'. I've seen loads of stories since he began them that aren't obviously taken from his interview... but when you read the story - it is. Take the Stubbs one, I am sure I read a story last week that the headline was about Stubbs. There was a full story, pics etc. And somewhere, loosely credited, they mentioned that it was during the interview with Simon Ferry that subject content of the article was taken from.

Very rarely do journo's go out and get the stories, most online content is just lifted from somewhere else. Hell, I've even seen stories on the record that they've lifted from the sun! The story might have a sensational headline, you go on to read it and after a wee paragraph it'll say something like.... "blah blah blah as reported in the Sun" - they're actually reporting on stuff, that was reported on in other papers.

Right now, I reckon the DR are getting 30-35% of their ad revenues from digital.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Smiley
Member Avatar
Off treasure hunting in Holland
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Corky Buczek
20 Feb 2018, 11:59 AM
Smiley
20 Feb 2018, 11:01 AM
Grafenwalder
19 Feb 2018, 07:13 PM
So we have to mourn the demise of a rag that, only last week, was pretty much tweeting a girfuy at the death of a 36-year old guy because they thought that's what would appeal to their chosen demograph.

Cry me a river.
That's not really what happened at all.

But speaking of the Record, their back page has a headline 'Zenit to win it' and a picture of Neil Lennon. The story is actually about Lenny backing Celtic to go all the way in the Europa League.

The problem the Record has is not enough staff, loads of the ones who are there are undertrained, digital staff who tweet and post with little oversight. Headlines like that aren't malicious, they're just stupid. For all The Sun and the Mail are maligned they don't make a fraction of the errors the Record do.

20 years ago a sub took time and care to come up with a headline, it was proof read by two or three colleagues, it went to the chief sub, then the sports editor. Now a headline is written as quickly as possible and is lucky if it's seen by someone other than the person who wrote it before it goes off stone.

Digital copy is even more roughshod. Things are being tweeted out under the banner of The Independent, once one of the most trusted papers in the UK that are absolute baloney because the people doing digital are straight out of uni and are being asked to come up with stupid amounts of traffic.
You're correct and its not just a problem confined to print media. Media companies in general are hiring folk with little experience - on rotten terms and conditions - and they are making the same mistakes as you describe - particularly in the social media spin offs.
Comms, whether it's newspapers or government or doing marketing for bog roll is complicated. Social media stuff is often just handed to a wean which often is great in some regards ie they know how other young people talk and what they like but in other regards they need oversight if they're just out of uni.

Doing social media for a national newspaper is a hugely difficult job with lots of nuance and a depth of knowledge and thoughtfulness needed, but if you're going to pay five 20 year olds £15,000 each then they're going to produce a lot of mince when left to their own devices.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
asterisk_years
First team training
[ *  *  * ]
The problem is nobody is prepared to pay for decent journalism.

I visit the guardian every day, read it up all, enjoy 99% of it, understand that it's important work (most of the time) and great writing. On the way out of every article I'm presented with a begging bowl "please drop us a little coin for all this work you've enjoyed" and I think "nah".

For all their flaws the guys at TwoPointOne started their own business; Writing about football. Then had the audacity to charge for it. They got pilloried. I appreciate there was more to it than that but there was a lot of criticism based purely on the fact it was subscription only.

So journalists need to make a coin somehow and getting ad revenue seems to be the only way. That seems to rely on them generating masses and masses and content and most of it is crap.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Gunner
Member Avatar
I'll play anywhere, as long as I get a game!
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
asterisk_years
20 Feb 2018, 12:29 PM
The problem is nobody is prepared to pay for decent journalism.

I visit the guardian every day, read it up all, enjoy 99% of it, understand that it's important work (most of the time) and great writing. On the way out of every article I'm presented with a begging bowl "please drop us a little coin for all this work you've enjoyed" and I think "nah".

For all their flaws the guys at TwoPointOne started their own business; Writing about football. Then had the audacity to charge for it. They got pilloried. I appreciate there was more to it than that but there was a lot of criticism based purely on the fact it was subscription only.

So journalists need to make a coin somehow and getting ad revenue seems to be the only way. That seems to rely on them generating masses and masses and content and most of it is crap.
there has to be money coming in somewhere. I subscribe to the times. I get that and I am happy to pay for what I enjoy. I tend not to complain for what I consider free news, nobody forces me to click on links or ready the DR or Sun online or whatever else. If I think it's shampoo, I think it's shampoo. But it's not cost me anything.

TwoPointOne, I looked at. But thought it was dull as hell. Poor product not worth any money imo... but everyone has different tastes in what they enjoy / like. I'm sure there's others who enjoy it.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Smiley
Member Avatar
Off treasure hunting in Holland
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Gunner
20 Feb 2018, 12:24 PM
Smiley
20 Feb 2018, 11:55 AM
Gunner
20 Feb 2018, 11:09 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
It's just money. Someone mentioned Si Ferry's interview being ripped off. The Record weren't first with the interview but it's dirt cheap copy. Music to the accountants' ears.
Its being seen to be first. Everything is news now.. it's lazy journalism. Most 'digital reporters' scour social media for anything that remotely could be newsworthy. But that's what news is these days.. everyone does it - even most of the bloggers. Talkingbaws for example, 99% of their stuff is just ripped from social media.

If someone of any note posts anything online, it's a story. It's given 300 words, chopped up, battered on a page with 5 ads and a video that's got a pre-roll on before it. This could be the sun, record, times or most blogs out there... be it footy accums, talkingbaws, joe... and so on.

Si Ferry is very 'of the moment'. I've seen loads of stories since he began them that aren't obviously taken from his interview... but when you read the story - it is. Take the Stubbs one, I am sure I read a story last week that the headline was about Stubbs. There was a full story, pics etc. And somewhere, loosely credited, they mentioned that it was during the interview with Simon Ferry that subject content of the article was taken from.

Very rarely do journo's go out and get the stories, most online content is just lifted from somewhere else. Hell, I've even seen stories on the record that they've lifted from the sun! The story might have a sensational headline, you go on to read it and after a wee paragraph it'll say something like.... "blah blah blah as reported in the Sun" - they're actually reporting on stuff, that was reported on in other papers.

Right now, I reckon the DR are getting 30-35% of their ad revenues from digital.
I agree about lifting stories - it's gone on since time immemorial - but I'd be stunned if the Record would write 'as reported in The Sun' (or vice versa) at all. Unless standards had fallen even further. Direct competitors are, or were, never given credit at all, unless they've done something negative.

I dunno about the digital ad revenues at the Record. I know for similar papers it's less than 10%. If their digital department has to wash its own face then the dept is too small for 35% revenue.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
2 users reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
Members: swood1989
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Celtic Football Club Discussion Forum · Next Topic »
Add Reply