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The Media
Topic Started: 1 Nov 2017, 11:12 PM (581,201 Views)
Seneca
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pads99
7 Nov 2017, 03:56 PM
Seneca
7 Nov 2017, 03:53 PM
tenerifetim
7 Nov 2017, 01:22 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deeptax evaders and he doesn't doorstep them it is hypocracy surely ?
Surely it was Daly who first exposed and named them in 'The Men Who Sold the Jerseys'?
No he didnt-the list of EBT recipients was widely known
Sorry, I meant the first to expose it to the general public via tv
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Jimmy_Quinn's_Hattrick
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It is not wrong to question what Desmond is or is not doing with his money, given the scale of the heist that is being conducted by social and economic elites like him. Journalists, in an ideal world, are there to ask those questions on our behalf. What we are seeing, however, is how BBC Scotland's coverage inevitably gravitates towards the parochial. There is a well-documented lack of resources and accomplished journalistic talent at BBC Scotland, and because of that they are unable to provide the kind of in-depth coverage offered by other newspapers and broadcasters. Because of this, BBC Scotland latches onto angles that are both easy (and cheap) to develop into stories, and which contain hooks that will catch as much people as possible - and football is the biggest hook of them all, especially if it's a negative story regarding Celtic. This is Kailyard parochialism, wherein a serious, global issue is dumbed-down to a level where it can be conveyed in the pre-existing package of Scottish football. I find it troubling when an issue of this severity is relegated to tabloid-level pantomime, both because it is far more important than that and because I think people are capable of more complicated thought than our esteemed national broadcaster believes we are.

This is not, of course, a defence of what Desmond has seemingly been doing. We can and should level criticism at both Desmond and BBC Scotland. Cries of "aye but it was legal" or "aye but if it was cash-in-hand" are disingenuous and hypocritical. Global economic elites funnel billions into offshore havens every year, leaving nothing for everyone else. Cash-in-hand payments on which tax isn't paid is recycled almost immediately back into the economy, and back into the tax pool - money stashed in the Cayman Islands is not, ever. The reign of austerity in this country is a direct consequence of this: we have to "tighten our belts" not because there isn't enough, but because people like this stole all the money (and decided they were going to make their robbery legal). I don't care if it was "just a wee bit", it's as wrong when Dermot Desmond does it as it is wrong when the Queen, Bono or Apple do it. "Are you a Rangers supporter?" is just childish, and makes Desmond look like an idiot.
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Torquemada
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randombloke
7 Nov 2017, 04:28 PM
Seneca
7 Nov 2017, 03:53 PM
tenerifetim
7 Nov 2017, 01:22 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deeptax evaders and he doesn't doorstep them it is hypocracy surely ?
Surely it was Daly who first exposed and named them in 'The Men Who Sold the Jerseys'?
Aye, he was lauded as a fearless investigative journalist then....but he's one of Jabba's puppets now that he's mentioned the tax affairs of one of ours.

Try and keep up!
Obsequious, forelock-tugging claptrap. If Desmond owned shares in Hearts or Motherwell, he would not have merited a mention, or it would have been in passing. This was planned to be and is a smear on Celtic -- an agenda-laden attack with absolutely no news merit in Scottish terms. Desmond avoided a million in Swiss tax over three years and BBC Scotland does a special on it??? Get off the stage. The gobscheidts at the BBC must be chortling at having reeled in so many sanctimonious, look-how-worthy-I-am dupes.
Edited by Torquemada, 7 Nov 2017, 05:13 PM.
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Mickeybhoy84
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https://twitter.com/BBCSportsound/status/927917261842771969

Boyd is an absolute clown of a man. There’s absolutely no harm in having Shinnie in this Scotland squad. He’s been one of the more consistent, non-Celtic, players in Scotland over the last 3 or 4 years. A far better option in the middle than Ryan Jack imo.
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Fogsy Bhoy
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VBI
2 Nov 2017, 07:36 PM
Batistuta. :lol:

It is somewhat odd/amusing the way all the familiar faces in the Scottish sports media, all claim to support the likes of Airdrie, Dundee, Stranraer, St Mirren, Livingston, etc, despite the league being dominated historically by only two clubs. The people who the huns associate as Celtic fans, tend to be so desperate to prove "impartiality" that they will happily give Celtic a shoeing.
Andy Walker springs to mind.
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ShugSty
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Dermot Desmond is big and ugly enough to look after himself. As Celtic's main shareholder, of course he'll be highlighted by the press when named in those so-called Panama Papers. He is a (fairly well known) public figure with the largest stake in the country's biggest football club. It's a bit disingenuous to use the media's "three wise monkeys" approach to financial indiscretions in previous years by another Glasgow club as a means of trying to excuse what appears to be morally questionable (albeit not illegal) tax avoidance.

But in conclusion, if this is the best effort the media can muster to smear Celtic, I think we can all (including Dermot himself) sleep easy in our beds! :thumbsup:
Edited by ShugSty, 7 Nov 2017, 08:26 PM.
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bigkev
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Scottish Media. A balanced view

Bad news. DD uses tax avoidance schemes and is the major shareholder of the Scottish Champions who have always paid their dues

Good News. GASL and convicted tax fraudster agrees to fund shortfall through his family offshore trust for zombie version of club that went bust owing millions to HMRC due to tax avoidance.
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exiledinstonehaventim
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Jimmy_Quinn's_Hattrick
7 Nov 2017, 05:10 PM
It is not wrong to question what Desmond is or is not doing with his money, given the scale of the heist that is being conducted by social and economic elites like him. Journalists, in an ideal world, are there to ask those questions on our behalf. What we are seeing, however, is how BBC Scotland's coverage inevitably gravitates towards the parochial. There is a well-documented lack of resources and accomplished journalistic talent at BBC Scotland, and because of that they are unable to provide the kind of in-depth coverage offered by other newspapers and broadcasters. Because of this, BBC Scotland latches onto angles that are both easy (and cheap) to develop into stories, and which contain hooks that will catch as much people as possible - and football is the biggest hook of them all, especially if it's a negative story regarding Celtic. This is Kailyard parochialism, wherein a serious, global issue is dumbed-down to a level where it can be conveyed in the pre-existing package of Scottish football. I find it troubling when an issue of this severity is relegated to tabloid-level pantomime, both because it is far more important than that and because I think people are capable of more complicated thought than our esteemed national broadcaster believes we are.

This is not, of course, a defence of what Desmond has seemingly been doing. We can and should level criticism at both Desmond and BBC Scotland. Cries of "aye but it was legal" or "aye but if it was cash-in-hand" are disingenuous and hypocritical. Global economic elites funnel billions into offshore havens every year, leaving nothing for everyone else. Cash-in-hand payments on which tax isn't paid is recycled almost immediately back into the economy, and back into the tax pool - money stashed in the Cayman Islands is not, ever. The reign of austerity in this country is a direct consequence of this: we have to "tighten our belts" not because there isn't enough, but because people like this stole all the money (and decided they were going to make their robbery legal). I don't care if it was "just a wee bit", it's as wrong when Dermot Desmond does it as it is wrong when the Queen, Bono or Apple do it. "Are you a Rangers supporter?" is just childish, and makes Desmond look like an idiot.
Excellent post
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jbj712
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Jimmy_Quinn's_Hattrick
7 Nov 2017, 05:10 PM
It is not wrong to question what Desmond is or is not doing with his money, given the scale of the heist that is being conducted by social and economic elites like him. Journalists, in an ideal world, are there to ask those questions on our behalf. What we are seeing, however, is how BBC Scotland's coverage inevitably gravitates towards the parochial. There is a well-documented lack of resources and accomplished journalistic talent at BBC Scotland, and because of that they are unable to provide the kind of in-depth coverage offered by other newspapers and broadcasters. Because of this, BBC Scotland latches onto angles that are both easy (and cheap) to develop into stories, and which contain hooks that will catch as much people as possible - and football is the biggest hook of them all, especially if it's a negative story regarding Celtic. This is Kailyard parochialism, wherein a serious, global issue is dumbed-down to a level where it can be conveyed in the pre-existing package of Scottish football. I find it troubling when an issue of this severity is relegated to tabloid-level pantomime, both because it is far more important than that and because I think people are capable of more complicated thought than our esteemed national broadcaster believes we are.

This is not, of course, a defence of what Desmond has seemingly been doing. We can and should level criticism at both Desmond and BBC Scotland. Cries of "aye but it was legal" or "aye but if it was cash-in-hand" are disingenuous and hypocritical. Global economic elites funnel billions into offshore havens every year, leaving nothing for everyone else. Cash-in-hand payments on which tax isn't paid is recycled almost immediately back into the economy, and back into the tax pool - money stashed in the Cayman Islands is not, ever. The reign of austerity in this country is a direct consequence of this: we have to "tighten our belts" not because there isn't enough, but because people like this stole all the money (and decided they were going to make their robbery legal). I don't care if it was "just a wee bit", it's as wrong when Dermot Desmond does it as it is wrong when the Queen, Bono or Apple do it. "Are you a Rangers supporter?" is just childish, and makes Desmond look like an idiot.
Some good points but spoiled by the idea that the cash in hand small time stuff is ok.
If you want a truly fair society then everyone should pay their dues when they should.
As a wage slave on the PAYE schedule who never gets to see his tax and NI contributions before the government takes them back! It is always galling to see the self employed chisel their way to paying the absolute minimum. Over a working lifetime these are not insignificant amounts to people like me!
They are doing the exact same as DD and her Maj!
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jbrown1964
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Mickeybhoy84
7 Nov 2017, 05:24 PM
https://twitter.com/BBCSportsound/status/927917261842771969

Boyd is an absolute clown of a man. There’s absolutely no harm in having Shinnie in this Scotland squad. He’s been one of the more consistent, non-Celtic, players in Scotland over the last 3 or 4 years. A far better option in the middle than Ryan Jack imo.
I cant believe I am going to write this but I agree with Boyd in this instance. McGregor cant get in Scotland squad/team and he is miles better than Shinnie. Seems like throwing bone to Aberdeen support so they get decent turnout.
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tinsoldier
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jbrown1964
7 Nov 2017, 11:36 PM
Mickeybhoy84
7 Nov 2017, 05:24 PM
https://twitter.com/BBCSportsound/status/927917261842771969

Boyd is an absolute clown of a man. There’s absolutely no harm in having Shinnie in this Scotland squad. He’s been one of the more consistent, non-Celtic, players in Scotland over the last 3 or 4 years. A far better option in the middle than Ryan Jack imo.
I cant believe I am going to write this but I agree with Boyd in this instance. McGregor cant get in Scotland squad/team and he is miles better than Shinnie. Seems like throwing bone to Aberdeen support so they get decent turnout.
McGregor is in the squad and Shinnie doesn’t have a cap yet
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Arsene Parcelie
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jim62
7 Nov 2017, 02:39 PM
randombloke
7 Nov 2017, 12:30 PM
lenobhoy
7 Nov 2017, 11:58 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
If DD has been aggressively avoiding tax in the UK, Ireland or any other jurisdiction then he deserves criticism for it - end of.

The "but why him and not...." argument is irrelevant - if you applied that logic across the board then nobody would ever be investigated or exposed.

There are all sorts or rich people and corporations named in the Panama Papers - some will come to public attention quicker than others not because they are the worst offenders, but simply because there is a journo who has an angle on the story. Mark Daly has a journalistic interest in the financial affairs of Scottish fitba, so of course he's going to publish a story of DD's tax affairs when he has information presented to him .

Maybe other figures in our game will come to light in due course, or maybe DD is the only one mentioned in this particular release of information. Either way, it's him in the spotlight for now and he's due the same scrutiny in the court of public opinion as any other billionaire accused of avoiding paying his fair share of tax by legal or illegal means.
how does someone "aggressively" avoid tax? :ponder: ;)
"eff off, I'm no payin' and I'll break anybody that tries to get it off me"

Something like that, I imagine.
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modest mouse
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Jimmy_Quinn's_Hattrick
7 Nov 2017, 05:10 PM
It is not wrong to question what Desmond is or is not doing with his money, given the scale of the heist that is being conducted by social and economic elites like him. Journalists, in an ideal world, are there to ask those questions on our behalf. What we are seeing, however, is how BBC Scotland's coverage inevitably gravitates towards the parochial. There is a well-documented lack of resources and accomplished journalistic talent at BBC Scotland, and because of that they are unable to provide the kind of in-depth coverage offered by other newspapers and broadcasters. Because of this, BBC Scotland latches onto angles that are both easy (and cheap) to develop into stories, and which contain hooks that will catch as much people as possible - and football is the biggest hook of them all, especially if it's a negative story regarding Celtic. This is Kailyard parochialism, wherein a serious, global issue is dumbed-down to a level where it can be conveyed in the pre-existing package of Scottish football. I find it troubling when an issue of this severity is relegated to tabloid-level pantomime, both because it is far more important than that and because I think people are capable of more complicated thought than our esteemed national broadcaster believes we are.

This is not, of course, a defence of what Desmond has seemingly been doing. We can and should level criticism at both Desmond and BBC Scotland. Cries of "aye but it was legal" or "aye but if it was cash-in-hand" are disingenuous and hypocritical. Global economic elites funnel billions into offshore havens every year, leaving nothing for everyone else. Cash-in-hand payments on which tax isn't paid is recycled almost immediately back into the economy, and back into the tax pool - money stashed in the Cayman Islands is not, ever. The reign of austerity in this country is a direct consequence of this: we have to "tighten our belts" not because there isn't enough, but because people like this stole all the money (and decided they were going to make their robbery legal). I don't care if it was "just a wee bit", it's as wrong when Dermot Desmond does it as it is wrong when the Queen, Bono or Apple do it. "Are you a Rangers supporter?" is just childish, and makes Desmond look like an idiot.
I largely agree with what you are saying here, but I see nothing wrong with linking the issue to Celtic's major shareholder.

The working class at large, unfortunately, are not au fait with the tax avoidance practices of the super rich. Most of us have suspect this type of thing to be going on for some time, but here we now have evidence. It helps to make the story real to a possibly otherwise indifferent audience if the connection is made to individuals or institutions that they have some knowledge of.

I don't think that this is dumbing the story down as such. Possibly it is parochial, but I don't think the story would have anything like the same impact if the main focus was individuals or companies that nobody had heard of. Hence they focus on DD and Celtic. I don't believe there is anything sinister or underhand in that.

And I think Mark Daly is a very good investigative journalist, so whilst there are questions about the level of resources avaiable to BBC Scotland, I don't think they apply to the journalist who produced this story.
Edited by modest mouse, 8 Nov 2017, 12:32 AM.
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PMSW
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jbrown1964
7 Nov 2017, 11:36 PM
Mickeybhoy84
7 Nov 2017, 05:24 PM
https://twitter.com/BBCSportsound/status/927917261842771969

Boyd is an absolute clown of a man. There’s absolutely no harm in having Shinnie in this Scotland squad. He’s been one of the more consistent, non-Celtic, players in Scotland over the last 3 or 4 years. A far better option in the middle than Ryan Jack imo.
I cant believe I am going to write this but I agree with Boyd in this instance. McGregor cant get in Scotland squad/team and he is miles better than Shinnie. Seems like throwing bone to Aberdeen support so they get decent turnout.
Of course it's throwing them a bone but to be fair, it's not the first and won't be the last time that the likes of that has happened in international football.

For me, the bigger question is why the game is at Pittodrie at all. My answer would be have a look at the chairmen of 2 of the most prominent clubs in Scotland who recently, against the wishes of the overwhelming majority of their fans, came out and told us it's time to move on from the hun cheating.

Expect a John McGinn start in an international at Easter Road in the not too distant future.
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Ess
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HMRC are acutely aware of these schemes, they were deliberately left open for the benefit of our corporate masters.
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screwtop
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Torquemada
7 Nov 2017, 05:10 PM
randombloke
7 Nov 2017, 04:28 PM
Seneca
7 Nov 2017, 03:53 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deeptax evaders
Aye, he was lauded as a fearless investigative journalist then....but he's one of Jabba's puppets now that he's mentioned the tax affairs of one of ours.

Try and keep up!
Obsequious, forelock-tugging claptrap. If Desmond owned shares in Hearts or Motherwell, he would not have merited a mention, or it would have been in passing. This was planned to be and is a smear on Celtic -- an agenda-laden attack with absolutely no news merit in Scottish terms. Desmond avoided a million in Swiss tax over three years and BBC Scotland does a special on it??? Get off the stage. The gobscheidts at the BBC must be chortling at having reeled in so many sanctimonious, look-how-worthy-I-am dupes.
Here, here.
Nothing short of another establishment attack on Irish Catholics.

How many of these clowns are posting on an Apple device?

Good luck to the bold Dermot. How the eff do you think we're paying Brendan's wages?


Let them eat effing cake. :i_say:

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Luigi
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Govan Super Casino
4 Nov 2017, 12:58 PM
Hamster
4 Nov 2017, 12:40 PM
Stonking article in the Daily Record today comparing Dave King and Ann Budge's 'failures' at their clubs.
There´s no comparison between what they've done at their clubs, one died, one didn't, but apart from that I think the article is OK tbh.
Spoiler: click to toggle
"It put an end to a succession of ruinous regimes from Craig Whyte to Charles Green and more recently the presence of Mike Ashley after renegotiating the controversial retail deal that was crippling the club."

I would say that the ruinous regimes started as soon as Murray bought into that lot. Which so happened to include one Dave King.

Load of rubbish to be hailing him as a messiah.
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MILLIGANS ISLAND
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Ess
8 Nov 2017, 09:29 AM
HMRC are acutely aware of these schemes, they were deliberately left open for the benefit of our corporate masters.
Correct, and in many instances devised between government and said corporate masters.
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MILLIGANS ISLAND
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jbrown1964
7 Nov 2017, 11:36 PM
Mickeybhoy84
7 Nov 2017, 05:24 PM
https://twitter.com/BBCSportsound/status/927917261842771969

Boyd is an absolute clown of a man. There’s absolutely no harm in having Shinnie in this Scotland squad. He’s been one of the more consistent, non-Celtic, players in Scotland over the last 3 or 4 years. A far better option in the middle than Ryan Jack imo.
I cant believe I am going to write this but I agree with Boyd in this instance. McGregor cant get in Scotland squad/team and he is miles better than Shinnie. Seems like throwing bone to Aberdeen support so they get decent turnout.
I didn't see much wrong with what boyd said personally.
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tinytim81
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jim62
7 Nov 2017, 02:39 PM
randombloke
7 Nov 2017, 12:30 PM
lenobhoy
7 Nov 2017, 11:58 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
If DD has been aggressively avoiding tax in the UK, Ireland or any other jurisdiction then he deserves criticism for it - end of.

The "but why him and not...." argument is irrelevant - if you applied that logic across the board then nobody would ever be investigated or exposed.

There are all sorts or rich people and corporations named in the Panama Papers - some will come to public attention quicker than others not because they are the worst offenders, but simply because there is a journo who has an angle on the story. Mark Daly has a journalistic interest in the financial affairs of Scottish fitba, so of course he's going to publish a story of DD's tax affairs when he has information presented to him .

Maybe other figures in our game will come to light in due course, or maybe DD is the only one mentioned in this particular release of information. Either way, it's him in the spotlight for now and he's due the same scrutiny in the court of public opinion as any other billionaire accused of avoiding paying his fair share of tax by legal or illegal means.
how does someone "aggressively" avoid tax? :ponder: ;)
It's a perfectly cromulent description.
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