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Supporters/Green Brigade Thread; OBFA Act Repealed
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Topic Started: 15 Aug 2017, 01:23 PM (325,771 Views)
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niall
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4 Sep 2017, 07:28 PM
Post #581
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- 4 Sep 2017, 12:20 PM
- niall
- 4 Sep 2017, 09:13 AM
- PauloM
- 4 Sep 2017, 01:00 AM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
So I could sit in a pub all day with that tshirt on with no problembut someone else with it on who pops in for a pint enroute to the game could get lifted?? That's ridiculous
That's not correct. It is an offence to "wear an item of clothing in such a way or in such circumstances as to arouse reasonable suspicion that he is a member or supporter of a proscribed organisation." It is an offence under section 13 of the Terrorism Act 2000, so it is entirely separate to the OFBATFA. http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2000/11/section/13The proscribed organisation is the IRA, there is no distinction with the PIRA. There have been very few prosecutions under section 13, but this article refers to 2 of them: http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13184850.Marcher_caught_on_camera_in_IRA__uniform_/I assumed that those wearing tshirts would be charged under the Terrorism Act (as it is much clearer and easier to prove). They may be charged under the OFBATFA as well, I really don't know as I haven't seen the summary complaints. And yes, I'm a lawyer too........ I didn't know that. Cheers
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justinjest
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6 Sep 2017, 10:22 AM
Post #582
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if the OBAF act is repealed at this parliament, what happens to those awaiting trial under the act, or indeed those who have been convicted under the act?
I recall reading that during a demonstration against the OBAF act outside Holyrood, the demonstrators sang Roll of honour with impunity, as it is only an offence under the act to sing it in relation to a football match. That, if true, would confirm how nonsensical the act is - being able to sing a song at a demonstration with impunity, whilst complaining about being arrested for singing the same song.
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PauloM
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7 Sep 2017, 05:00 PM
Post #583
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Everyone's Fantasy Football first pick
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- justinjest
- 6 Sep 2017, 10:22 AM
if the OBAF act is repealed at this parliament, what happens to those awaiting trial under the act, or indeed those who have been convicted under the act?
I recall reading that during a demonstration against the OBAF act outside Holyrood, the demonstrators sang Roll of honour with impunity, as it is only an offence under the act to sing it in relation to a football match. That, if true, would confirm how nonsensical the act is - being able to sing a song at a demonstration with impunity, whilst complaining about being arrested for singing the same song.
Its bizarre
Would be interested if anyone from the Cairde or RFB scene is on, as the Police seem to allow the Hunger Strike memorial march, complete with bands and posters of the 10, and presumably provide policing to enable it. Where exactly is the line drawn as to what is legal and what isn't outside of the contest of football?
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jbj712
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7 Sep 2017, 05:25 PM
Post #584
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The amount of money, time and resources spent on Focus would be far better spent tackling real organised crime in our city. Especially in the north side of the burg where yours truly resides
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Monthecandy
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8 Sep 2017, 01:02 PM
Post #585
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- jbj712
- 7 Sep 2017, 05:25 PM
The amount of money, time and resources spent on Focus would be far better spent tackling real organised crime in our city. Especially in the north side of the burg where yours truly resides You do realise your probably now on a list somewhere with that post.
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littlegmbhoy
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10 Sep 2017, 12:54 PM
Post #586
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Cannot wait for the game and hope the GB and us all make it special as Im sure we will. Hope it does not go flat a la Bayern german team - like it went last year. Will be a great night...have I mentioned I cannot wait...plus Im off Wednesday!!!!
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Tubbytubthumper
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10 Sep 2017, 04:01 PM
Post #587
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- littlegmbhoy
- 10 Sep 2017, 12:54 PM
Cannot wait for the game and hope the GB and us all make it special as Im sure we will. Hope it does not go flat a la Bayern german team - like it went last year. Will be a great night...have I mentioned I cannot wait...plus Im off Wednesday!!!! would be interesting to see if there is any banner around the recent events for the watching millions around Europe....?
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Willie Wonka
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10 Sep 2017, 04:19 PM
Post #588
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Slavery fled, oh glorious dead
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- 4 Sep 2017, 12:20 PM
- niall
- 4 Sep 2017, 09:13 AM
- PauloM
- 4 Sep 2017, 01:00 AM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
So I could sit in a pub all day with that tshirt on with no problembut someone else with it on who pops in for a pint enroute to the game could get lifted?? That's ridiculous
That's not correct. It is an offence to "wear an item of clothing in such a way or in such circumstances as to arouse reasonable suspicion that he is a member or supporter of a proscribed organisation." It is an offence under section 13 of the Terrorism Act 2000, so it is entirely separate to the OFBATFA. http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2000/11/section/13The proscribed organisation is the IRA, there is no distinction with the PIRA. There have been very few prosecutions under section 13, but this article refers to 2 of them: http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13184850.Marcher_caught_on_camera_in_IRA__uniform_/I assumed that those wearing tshirts would be charged under the Terrorism Act (as it is much clearer and easier to prove). They may be charged under the OFBATFA as well, I really don't know as I haven't seen the summary complaints. And yes, I'm a lawyer too........ So it could have been a shirt with mick Collins on it they'd have been open to getting done?
Ffs
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spartacusthethird
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10 Sep 2017, 04:19 PM
Post #589
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Dance as if no-ones watching, sing as if no-ones listening and live every day as if it was your last
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- Tubbytubthumper
- 10 Sep 2017, 04:01 PM
- littlegmbhoy
- 10 Sep 2017, 12:54 PM
Cannot wait for the game and hope the GB and us all make it special as Im sure we will. Hope it does not go flat a la Bayern german team - like it went last year. Will be a great night...have I mentioned I cannot wait...plus Im off Wednesday!!!!
would be interesting to see if there is any banner around the recent events for the watching millions around Europe....? 'John Greigs A Bastard' in French and German and that stuff they speak in Belgium.
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tenerifetim
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11 Sep 2017, 09:35 AM
Post #590
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Good article in Herald today on Higgin's attitude to GB & others
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Spoiler: click to toggle Video: Police chief warns fans to expect force action over support for terror groups in row over football sectarianism laws Martin Williams @MWilliamsHT Senior News Reporter Police clash with fans after Green Brigade kettling incident in 2013
Police clash with fans after Green Brigade kettling incident in 2013
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A POLICE chief has warned that Scots football fans should expect police to act over support for terrorist organisations.
Assistant Chief Constable Bernard Higgins reacted after the Fans Against Criminalisation campaign group were critical of Assistant Chief Constable Bernie Higgins for warning controversial Celtic fans group the Green Brigade to leave politics at the turnstiles or face being arrested.
The row emerged as the FAC has warned of a "genuine danger to civil liberties" and the continuous criminalising of the young over minor offences if a controversial law aimed at tackling bigotry at football matches is not repealed.
In a hard-hitting indictment of the Offensive Behaviour at Football Act, the Fans Against Criminalisation, which has led a long campaign against the legislation said it had targeted and criminalised largely young male fans with no previous contact with the criminal justice system.
Some 70 per cent of those charged under the Act in 2016/17 were under 30 and 31 per cent were under 20.
And the group said if the Act is repealed, all charges made under the Act should be dropped and that all fans convicted under the law, who could not have been convicted under any other legislation should "at least" have the right to appeal.
HeraldScotland:
Thge FAC said that the Scottish Government announced in 2015 that "in response to concerns about the young being criminalised" they had instigated and funded, to the tune of £67000, a Diversion from Prosecution scheme which would seek to ensure that young people would not be saddled with a criminal record for relatively minor offences.
The group in a submission to MSPs and ministers said that this was a "clear recognition that the Act was criminalising young people who had no business being near a police station or a court".
But a Freedom of Information request submitted the Crown Office revealed that the option of diversion was offered to just two people up to September 27, 2016.
FAC said: "There are no published statistics on the previous convictions of those charged under the Act, but from our own work with those charged and from our dealings with a number of solicitors who have dealt extensively with these cases, we are aware that they are overwhelmingly people of previous good character with no prior contact with the law.
HeraldScotland:
"To create an Act which criminalises young, mainly working-class, men who would not otherwise be criminalised is entirely at odds with the Governments’ own policy positions in a number of significant respects."
The stance of the FAC comes as the Scottish Parliament’s justice committee considers legislation which would repeal the act brought in following the Old Firm “shame game” between Rangers and Celtic in 2011.
The group was also concerned the Act has caused a mistrust between police and football supporters and that any effort to repair relationships "will take a very long time" and only after the Act is abolished.
The Act had led to a "blurring of lines between politicians, prosecutors and police" which is dangerous to democracy," the campaign group warned.
They pointed to the police role in the kettling of Celtic fans on Glasgow's Gallowgate in March 2013 over what they described was a "peaceful demonstration" of around 100 to 150 fans.
FAC said the fans were "attacked by a force of hundreds of police officers drafted in from various force areas using dogs, helicopters and horses".
But while 13 were arrested for public order offences not one was convicted of any offence, said the FAC.
The group were also critical of Assistant Chief Constable Bernie Higgins who had warned controversial Celtic fans group the Green Brigade to leave politics at the turnstiles or face being arrested.
In a hard-hitting blast as the new league season got underway last month, the officer insisted his officers would not tolerate any offensive displays by the hardline supporters.
HeraldScotland: Assistant Chief Constable Bernie Higgins
"Whilst UEFA policy may prohibit political expression within the context of a football match within their control, Scottish law does not. Mr Higgins, therefore, is not simply fulfilling his role as Assistant Chief Constable by advocating that fans abide by the law, but he in fact goes well beyond that, relying on his own personal views and tastes to attempt to restrict the political expression of citizens of a modern European democracy in 2017.
"At best, this is unwise but at its worst it is a grotesque abuse of his position. One simply cannot imagine Mr Higgins urging any other group of society to refrain from indulging in political expression and it is a matter of grave concern that he has chosen to publicly censure supporters in this manner."
FAC concluded: "There is no evidence of any significant problem with disorder in Scottish football grounds in absolute terms or, as it happens, in comparison with other similarly-sized public events, like concerts. In terms of behaviour which could constitute hate crime either in terms of religion or other factors, clearly the overwhelming majority of this behaviour takes place in places other than football stadia.
"On that basis we are clear that there was never any genuine, substantive basis for new legislation which affected only football fans."
Assistant Chief Constable Bernard Higgins was unrepentant over his stance saying: “Over the years I have policed many events where political views have been expressed. That is what we do in a democracy. There is a massive difference between expressing a political view or supporting a terrorist organisation. “If FAC want to sit down with me I will happily explain my position and reasons for it, however I would reiterate that any person showing support for a terrorist organisation should expect my officers to act, and thereafter it will be a matter for the Scottish courts to decide.”
The FAC's strong comes as both Celtic and a prominent academic accused the Scottish Government of misrepresenting their views in a bid to boost support for keeping the Act.
Dr John Kelly, of Edinburgh University, said legal affairs minister Annabelle Ewing had taken comments he made in 2011 “out of context” to give the impression he supported the Act.
HeraldScotland: Annabelle Ewing (39095937)
And Celtic said it was “extremely disappointed” the government had used a six-year-old quote from its chief executive Peter Lawell in a “clear misrepresentation of its "long-standing” opposition to the legislation.
A Scottish Government spokesman said: “This government stands on the side of the many tens of thousands of football supporters, young and old, who want to enjoy watching our national game with family and friends in an atmosphere that is not tainted by offensive, abusive or threatening behaviour.
“The Act has strengthened the law and allowed for a more effective response by police and prosecutors to an issue which adversely affects people of all ages due to the actions of a prejudiced, irresponsible and senseless minority.
“As representatives of victims and equalities campaigners have also indicated, repealing the legislation and removing our law enforcement agencies of the powers under this Act, would send entirely the wrong signal to both football and wider society.
“We have repeatedly encouraged all stakeholders with any specific concerns within the Act to engage with us on how these could be addressed in order to ensure everyone can best continue to be protected from abusive and threatening behaviour.”
Lest we forget
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=TpWl0IGGjTA
Gee TW- my personal Guardian Angel-
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ssmith81
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12 Sep 2017, 01:33 AM
Post #591
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Mo..Mo..Super Mo....Super Mo Camara!
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Gotta' be a Big Jock display?
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Quiet Assasin
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12 Sep 2017, 10:13 PM
Post #592
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..for the maintenance of dinner tables for the children and the unemployed
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So...
What is going to happen due to admiral arsehole?
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james95
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12 Sep 2017, 10:17 PM
Post #593
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Off treasure hunting in Holland
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Carrot didn't even make contact. Embarrassing.
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Covcelt
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12 Sep 2017, 10:20 PM
Post #594
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It's UEFA Should be a fine,but........
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Willie Wonka
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12 Sep 2017, 10:22 PM
Post #595
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Slavery fled, oh glorious dead
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- Quiet Assasin
- 12 Sep 2017, 10:13 PM
So...
What is going to happen due to admiral arsehole? You're much more likely to get whacked for that than a chant or a flare tbh. Idiot should be made to wash naymars jock strap with his tongue for a year.
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Kingslim
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12 Sep 2017, 10:24 PM
Post #596
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- james95
- 12 Sep 2017, 10:17 PM
Carrot didn't even make contact. Embarrassing. Closest we got to one of their players all night
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Kingslim
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12 Sep 2017, 10:34 PM
Post #597
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Punters in the North Stand were trying to batter him when the polis were taking him through the NS.
I thought for a minute he was going to hug Sinclair the he had that wild swipe- what a 🥕.
It was Mbappe he tried to kick wasn't it? What did he do? Daft pumpkin probably thought it was Neymar.
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CELTBHOY1988
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12 Sep 2017, 10:38 PM
Post #598
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Expect a stadium closure sometime due to the actions of one moron.
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Goodbye Sevillian
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12 Sep 2017, 10:39 PM
Post #599
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As much as I love CL nights, the unfortunate thing is that it brings out the drunken arsehole daytrippers. I'd bet money that the guy who ran on tonight can't even spell season ticket. Big fine coming Celtic's way again. If anybody knows the arsehole who ran on, give him a good boot in the stanes.
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Quiet Assasin
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12 Sep 2017, 10:39 PM
Post #600
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..for the maintenance of dinner tables for the children and the unemployed
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- james95
- 12 Sep 2017, 10:17 PM
Carrot didn't even make contact. Embarrassing. Think he absolutely what it as he probably didn't expect to get close to him. A total rid neck.
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