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Supporters/Green Brigade Thread; OBFA Act Repealed
Topic Started: 15 Aug 2017, 01:23 PM (325,637 Views)
Drinkywhiskers
Occasional Substitute
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Maybe I'm on my own but when I think of the club reselling my seat if I can't attend a game, I'm not expecting anything for it. If I buy a ST i buy it. Don't expect a refund. Would just rather the stadium was filled as much as possible than empty seats.

I worked for an airline. If you buy a seat it's non refundable. If you then can't travel, they wont refund you and will resell your seat.
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rightsaidted
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Cops will be knocking down your door, but probably at a more civilised hour.
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Muzz
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BRFA
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idyllwild
16 Mar 2018, 07:01 PM
Wailer
16 Mar 2018, 06:48 PM
We can aggressively bless ourselves again. :popepiusx2:
FTQ! :rocker:
:lol: :rocker:
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Tim Waits
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Small-Minded Bien-Pensant

Drinkywhiskers
16 Mar 2018, 07:52 PM
I worked for an airline. If you buy a seat it's non refundable. If you then can't travel, they wont refund you and will resell your seat.
They are also known to kill puppies, so I am not sure I want Celtic emulating their business model to any great degree.
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AmericanHistoryBhoy
Everyone's Fantasy Football first pick
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jim62
16 Mar 2018, 02:34 PM
legal_man
16 Mar 2018, 11:12 AM
Wailer
16 Mar 2018, 08:10 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
They may well do, but that was always the point - existing law had already criminalised the sort of behaviour that this Act was ostensibly designed to curb.
https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/search-judgments/judgment?id=1c2e86a6-8980-69d2-b500-ff0000d74aa7

the existing laws seemed to work just fine here!! :thumbsup:
I read that in the Greg Hemphill court reporter voice.

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Jimmy_Quinn's_Hattrick
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Sunny Jim Young
16 Mar 2018, 02:11 PM
popeyed
16 Mar 2018, 12:32 PM
fatboab
16 Mar 2018, 11:08 AM
well done to everyone who helped rid the country of an unjust law which appeared designed to specifically criminalise Celtic supporters.
'We need to even things up' to paraphrase Roseanna Cunningham.
Christine Grahame rather than Cunningham?

I am really proud of the supporters who did this.

They are getting some amount of abuse from government supporters on Twitter.

Maybe there should be an Offensive Behaviour in Politics Act.
It was indeed Christine Grahame. In fact, for the sake of posterity, I want to link to the record of evidence given to the Justice Committee on 13 September 2011, of which Grahame was Convener and where the remarks in question were made. Specifically, the discussion beginning at the tail end of page 254, where Grahame explicitly raises the 'concern' at Celtic supporters not being prosecuted because their songs are political, not sectarian or religiously aggravated. Worryingly, she also seems to not understand the distinction between 'Catholic/Protestant' and 'Celtic/Rangers'.
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Peco
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Drinkywhiskers
16 Mar 2018, 07:52 PM
Maybe I'm on my own but when I think of the club reselling my seat if I can't attend a game, I'm not expecting anything for it. If I buy a ST i buy it. Don't expect a refund. Would just rather the stadium was filled as much as possible than empty seats.

I worked for an airline. If you buy a seat it's non refundable. If you then can't travel, they wont refund you and will resell your seat.
Perhaps there’s a middle ground.

My brother can’t use his ST at next home game due to work. I’ll meanwhile be visiting from London and no way would he take any financial recompense for me using his ticket. Celtic have their money for the seat already but would be keen to sell another - that’s obvious.

If I choose to go to the Ross County game, I will use my brother’s ticket but make a donation to the Kano Foundation for the equivalent pro-rata. Nothing better than seeing the joy of those 21st century “can ye lift me over the turnstiles” kids getting the Celtic experiences that define every one of us.
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paulfg42
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justinjest
16 Mar 2018, 01:17 AM
paulfg42
16 Mar 2018, 12:42 AM
justinjest
15 Mar 2018, 11:10 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Why are you going on about it? Your comment that we should only have built a 50,000 seater is stupid and nonsensical.
I wasn't going on about it, I was replying to your stupid response.
I'm not sure if you attend CP regularly, but if you do, you would see that there are empty seats at every home game, except the games against the scum and CL games. We only need a 61,000 stadium about 5 times a season, the rest of the time there are plenty of empty seats - if fans want to get a ticket for games, apart from the scum and CL, they will get one (unfortunately, these are the games that fans tend to want to attend).
What exactly is your point? :ponder:

Forget it. I've just seen your comment and the replies. I'm afraid to tell you we have a 60,000 seater stadium and we're stuck with it.
Edited by paulfg42, 18 Mar 2018, 12:40 AM.
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popeyed
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Jimmy_Quinn's_Hattrick
17 Mar 2018, 10:32 PM
Sunny Jim Young
16 Mar 2018, 02:11 PM
popeyed
16 Mar 2018, 12:32 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Christine Grahame rather than Cunningham?

I am really proud of the supporters who did this.

They are getting some amount of abuse from government supporters on Twitter.

Maybe there should be an Offensive Behaviour in Politics Act.
It was indeed Christine Grahame. In fact, for the sake of posterity, I want to link to the record of evidence given to the Justice Committee on 13 September 2011, of which Grahame was Convener and where the remarks in question were made. Specifically, the discussion beginning at the tail end of page 254, where Grahame explicitly raises the 'concern' at Celtic supporters not being prosecuted because their songs are political, not sectarian or religiously aggravated. Worryingly, she also seems to not understand the distinction between 'Catholic/Protestant' and 'Celtic/Rangers'.
:thumbsup:
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Mackin
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Tim Waits
16 Mar 2018, 06:21 PM
jmhgg
16 Mar 2018, 05:54 PM
Tim Waits
16 Mar 2018, 05:42 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Did this not all start because someone said that the club should facilitate season ticket holders selling their tickets when they couldnt attend?
FWIW, I think the stadium is the right size but fail to see why the club would want to introduce a resale scheme when it can sell a full face value ticket and keep the £30 itself.
Maybe I missed the beginning, so fair enough.

Obviously resale of unused season tickets would be great for ST holders who can't use them for some games & folks looking for a one-off ticket. Maybe the Club hasn't gotten around to it because there isn't a way (yet) for them to make it pay enough to make up for the administrative issues.

Is there such a thing as
StubHub
over there?

Edit to add: missed your second point, which makes sense.
Celtic tried Stubhub for a while (maybe still do) but it was when the stadium was half empty so no demand. It ended up being used to punt the padded seats in the Jock Stein stand on the cheap.
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Stockholm87
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fatboab
16 Mar 2018, 11:08 AM
well done to everyone who helped rid the country of an unjust law which appeared designed to specifically criminalise Celtic supporters.
If the act was "designed to specifically criminalise Celtic supporters" then statistics suggest the act was indeed a failure:

Charges by club affliation 2012-2017:

Rangers 383, Celtic 218
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fatboab
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Just before the Dawn

Stockholm87
20 Mar 2018, 10:56 AM
fatboab
16 Mar 2018, 11:08 AM
well done to everyone who helped rid the country of an unjust law which appeared designed to specifically criminalise Celtic supporters.
If the act was "designed to specifically criminalise Celtic supporters" then statistics suggest the act was indeed a failure:

Charges by club affliation 2012-2017:

Rangers 383, Celtic 218
well done. You've just confirmed my point. :thumbsup:
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Stockholm87
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fatboab
20 Mar 2018, 10:59 AM
Stockholm87
20 Mar 2018, 10:56 AM
fatboab
16 Mar 2018, 11:08 AM
well done to everyone who helped rid the country of an unjust law which appeared designed to specifically criminalise Celtic supporters.
If the act was "designed to specifically criminalise Celtic supporters" then statistics suggest the act was indeed a failure:

Charges by club affliation 2012-2017:

Rangers 383, Celtic 218
well done. You've just confirmed my point. :thumbsup:
What am i missing? It doesn't seem to have targeted Celtic fans in particular
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fatboab
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Just before the Dawn

Stockholm87
20 Mar 2018, 12:04 PM
fatboab
20 Mar 2018, 10:59 AM
Stockholm87
20 Mar 2018, 10:56 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
well done. You've just confirmed my point. :thumbsup:
What am i missing? It doesn't seem to have targeted Celtic fans in particular
Laws that existed before would and should have resulted in all of those arrests for Sevco fans. It was the new law that criminalised the Celtic support and their songs.
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Stockholm87
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fatboab
20 Mar 2018, 12:14 PM
Stockholm87
20 Mar 2018, 12:04 PM
fatboab
20 Mar 2018, 10:59 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
What am i missing? It doesn't seem to have targeted Celtic fans in particular
Laws that existed before would and should have resulted in all of those arrests for Sevco fans. It was the new law that criminalised the Celtic support and their songs.
Are you suggesting that without OBFA the Rangers fans would have been arrested anyway but not the Celtic ones?
The fact that almost twice as many rangers fans got arrested under OBFA doesn't shake your belief that it was specifically designed to criminalise Celtic fans?

I work it out at,on average, roughly 1 arrest per match for Celtic fans during that period. Regardless of how poorly constructed the act may have been I don't see much evidence for your claim it targets Celtic fans
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fatboab
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Just before the Dawn

Stockholm87
20 Mar 2018, 12:28 PM
fatboab
20 Mar 2018, 12:14 PM
Stockholm87
20 Mar 2018, 12:04 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Laws that existed before would and should have resulted in all of those arrests for Sevco fans. It was the new law that criminalised the Celtic support and their songs.
Are you suggesting that without OBFA the Rangers fans would have been arrested anyway but not the Celtic ones?
The fact that almost twice as many rangers fans got arrested under OBFA doesn't shake your belief that it was specifically designed to criminalise Celtic fans?

I work it out at,on average, roughly 1 arrest per match for Celtic fans during that period. Regardless of how poorly constructed the act may have been I don't see much evidence for your claim it targets Celtic fans
ok.
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idyllwild


fatboab
20 Mar 2018, 12:14 PM
Stockholm87
20 Mar 2018, 12:04 PM
fatboab
20 Mar 2018, 10:59 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
What am i missing? It doesn't seem to have targeted Celtic fans in particular
Laws that existed before would and should have resulted in all of those arrests for Sevco fans. It was the new law that criminalised the Celtic support and their songs.
It was a shambles of a law, designed to even things up and without a basic understanding or recognition of what sectarianism is and how it is expressed.

By and large, we do not engage in sectarian behaviour as a support. This act dragged us into someone else’s problem.
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pablo5
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Yep. The vast majority of those arrests would have been for a sectarian breach of the peace.

What OBFA created was the crime of offensive behaviour. This was very much done as a catch all to make sure the Celtic support could be prosecuted for political expression in the same way the Zombies were done for their sectarian and discriminatory material.

That's why it was a failure. The definitions involved were extremely vague and incompetent. The purpose of the law was to do something about a nuanced problem with two very different issues at heart by trying to define it all as one offence.

That's before you even get to the question of why expressing a non-discriminatory political view in relation to a football match should be a criminal matter.

We'd likely be rather scornful of any other legal system which criminalised people on the basis that they stated a political view which a Police Officer found offensive.
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Stockholm87
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The claims seem to be that the law was designed to target Celtic fans , even things out or drag them into someonelse's problem.
None of these opinions are backed up by the hard statistical fact that almost twice as many rangers fans have been arrested under this law.
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44bhoy
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fatboab
20 Mar 2018, 12:48 PM
Stockholm87
20 Mar 2018, 12:28 PM
fatboab
20 Mar 2018, 12:14 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Are you suggesting that without OBFA the Rangers fans would have been arrested anyway but not the Celtic ones?
The fact that almost twice as many rangers fans got arrested under OBFA doesn't shake your belief that it was specifically designed to criminalise Celtic fans?

I work it out at,on average, roughly 1 arrest per match for Celtic fans during that period. Regardless of how poorly constructed the act may have been I don't see much evidence for your claim it targets Celtic fans
ok.
:lol:
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