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Supporters/Green Brigade Thread; OBFA Act Repealed
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Topic Started: 15 Aug 2017, 01:23 PM (325,639 Views)
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aldo
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16 Mar 2018, 01:03 AM
Post #3221
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And that's the way we like it...
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- Sunny Jim Young
- 15 Mar 2018, 11:42 PM
- aldo
- 15 Mar 2018, 10:49 PM
And so, after consistent criticism throughout it 6-odd years; after criminal records dished out, jobs lost, harassment and violence brought upon the 'guilty'; after families traumatised from dawn raids, sinister off-the-record warnings from police, the Bill has been scrapped. A trail of havoc left in it's wake.
I've always suspected the bill was a predictable, easy-option attempt by the SNP to assure No voters (especially huns-types, of varying degree) that an independent Scotland wouldn't equate to Home Rule = Rome Rule! Also, and in particular, the powers it would grant what would soon become Police Scotland might help keep an ultra conservative, establishment militia onside, should the very real prospect of violent civil unrest arise from a Yes victory. As much as I want independence, if there's even a kernel of truth in that, the Bill is still as disgrace.
Celtic should never have signed up to this in the first place. When you had that fecking gimp Martin Bain demanding the reach of the Bill include chants against British Armed Forces, - stiff upper lip bullshampoo, while his club was months away from cheating itself to death - it was only ever going to be farcical. The SNP would never have dared proceed without Celtic's cooperation; Lawwell should never have agreed to support the creation of a new law when sufficient laws were in place.
I thought the idea that the SNP took their lead from Lawwell was restricted to sites like FF and SevcoMedia. http://fansagainstcriminalisation.com/celtic-fc-calls-for-the-repeal-of-the-offensive-behaviour-act/ FFS man, read the thing properly. Celtic could and should have stymied this at the outset, by refusing to cooperate with a bullshi t farce of a PR-lead ‘Summit’. Just as the huns could have scuppered it, if they wanted to, as a major stakeholder in proceedings.
As for your link from 2016: so what? Lawwell speaks out against the Bill 4 years too late, big wows! Did he emerge from the Summit condemning the outcome? Did he attempt to distance Celtic from it? Nope. He solemnly nodded and signed the fag packet it was knocked out on. Probably saw it as an opportunity to clip the wings of those pesky Green Brigade rowdies.
Edited by aldo, 16 Mar 2018, 08:32 AM.
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searcher52
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16 Mar 2018, 01:03 AM
Post #3222
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You can observe a lot by just watching
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- paulfg42
- 16 Mar 2018, 12:42 AM
- justinjest
- 15 Mar 2018, 11:10 PM
- paulfg42
- 15 Mar 2018, 07:15 PM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
give what a rest? anybody who attends CP regularly will know that there are seats available for all games, except the scum & CL games - do you see something that I don't?
Why are you going on about it? Your comment that we should only have built a 50,000 seater is stupid and nonsensical. If CP is too big, why don't they just close off some areas. They could cover the seats in the closed areas with some sort out tarpaulin, maybe even put adverts of the tarp?
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Broadly Equivalent Bhoy
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16 Mar 2018, 01:09 AM
Post #3223
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Everyone's Fantasy Football first pick
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- aldo
- 15 Mar 2018, 10:49 PM
And so, after consistent criticism throughout it 6-odd years; after criminal records dished out, jobs lost, harassment and violence brought upon the 'guilty'; after families traumatised from dawn raids, sinister off-the-record warnings from police, the Bill has been scrapped. A trail of havoc left in it's wake.
I've always suspected the bill was a predictable, easy-option attempt by the SNP to assure No voters (especially huns-types, of varying degree) that an independent Scotland wouldn't equate to Home Rule = Rome Rule! Also, and in particular, the powers it would grant what would soon become Police Scotland might help keep an ultra conservative, establishment militia onside, should the very real prospect of violent civil unrest arise from a Yes victory. As much as I want independence, if there's even a kernel of truth in that, the Bill is still as disgrace.
Celtic should never have signed up to this in the first place. When you had that fecking gimp Martin Bain demanding the reach of the Bill include chants against British Armed Forces, - stiff upper lip bullshampoo, while his club was months away from cheating itself to death - it was only ever going to be farcical. The SNP would never have dared proceed without Celtic's cooperation; Lawwell should never have agreed to support the creation of a new law when sufficient laws were in place. White text on your last paragraph?
When do you think Celtic signed up to the OBFA?
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Sunny Jim Young
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16 Mar 2018, 01:14 AM
Post #3224
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- aldo
- 16 Mar 2018, 01:03 AM
- Sunny Jim Young
- 15 Mar 2018, 11:42 PM
- aldo
- 15 Mar 2018, 10:49 PM
And so, after consistent criticism throughout it 6-odd years; after criminal records dished out, jobs lost, harassment and violence brought upon the 'guilty'; after families traumatised from dawn raids, sinister off-the-record warnings from police, the Bill has been scrapped. A trail of havoc left in it's wake.
I've always suspected the bill was a predictable, easy-option attempt by the SNP to assure No voters (especially huns-types, of varying degree) that an independent Scotland wouldn't equate to Home Rule = Rome Rule! Also, and in particular, the powers it would grant what would soon become Police Scotland might help keep an ultra conservative, establishment militia onside, should the very real prospect of violent civil unrest arise from a Yes victory. As much as I want independence, if there's even a kernel of truth in that, the Bill is still as disgrace.
Celtic should never have signed up to this in the first place. When you had that fecking gimp Martin Bain demanding the reach of the Bill include chants against British Armed Forces, - stiff upper lip bullshampoo, while his club was months away from cheating itself to death - it was only ever going to be farcical. The SNP would never have dared proceed without Celtic's cooperation; Lawwell should never have agreed to support the creation of a new law when sufficient laws were in place.
I thought the idea that the SNP took their lead from Lawwell was restricted to sites like FF and SevcoMedia. http://fansagainstcriminalisation.com/celtic-fc-calls-for-the-repeal-of-the-offensive-behaviour-act/
FFS man, read the thing properly. Celtic could and should have stymied this at the outset, by refusing to cooperate with a bullshi t farce of a PR-lead ‘Summit’. Just as the huns could have scuppered it, if they wanted to, as a major stakeholder in proceedings. In other news, Lawwell and Brexit, now it can be told.
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justinjest
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16 Mar 2018, 01:17 AM
Post #3225
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- paulfg42
- 16 Mar 2018, 12:42 AM
- justinjest
- 15 Mar 2018, 11:10 PM
- paulfg42
- 15 Mar 2018, 07:15 PM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
give what a rest? anybody who attends CP regularly will know that there are seats available for all games, except the scum & CL games - do you see something that I don't?
Why are you going on about it? Your comment that we should only have built a 50,000 seater is stupid and nonsensical. I wasn't going on about it, I was replying to your stupid response. I'm not sure if you attend CP regularly, but if you do, you would see that there are empty seats at every home game, except the games against the scum and CL games. We only need a 61,000 stadium about 5 times a season, the rest of the time there are plenty of empty seats - if fans want to get a ticket for games, apart from the scum and CL, they will get one (unfortunately, these are the games that fans tend to want to attend).
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justinjest
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16 Mar 2018, 01:20 AM
Post #3226
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- searcher52
- 16 Mar 2018, 01:03 AM
- paulfg42
- 16 Mar 2018, 12:42 AM
- justinjest
- 15 Mar 2018, 11:10 PM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Why are you going on about it? Your comment that we should only have built a 50,000 seater is stupid and nonsensical.
If CP is too big, why don't they just close off some areas. They could cover the seats in the closed areas with some sort out tarpaulin, maybe even put adverts of the tarp? because fans have ST's for seats throughout the stadium, so in order to close off sections, they'd need to move fans who probably don't like the alternative seats that they would be offered. Outwith the scum & CL games, when was the last time CP was full?
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damosuzuki
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16 Mar 2018, 01:34 AM
Post #3227
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First name on the team-sheet
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- Mickeybhoy84
- 15 Mar 2018, 11:43 PM
Glad that the act has been binned. The whole thing was fundamentally flawed and it’s amaxing that anyone could try and argue otherwise. The idea of allowing the reprobates at Police Scotland to determine what is or isn’t offensive is laughable. This. I'm astonished at people believe giving the cops a weapon like this was a good idea.
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kellybhoy
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16 Mar 2018, 01:34 AM
Post #3228
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- Quiet Assasin
- 15 Mar 2018, 10:50 PM
- Crossraguel
- 15 Mar 2018, 10:43 PM
Anyone find a list of the 60 who voted against repeal? https://www.snp.org Letś not adopt the ¨Ẅho are these people?¨ attitude of the zombies. We won, the Act is no more.
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idyllwild
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16 Mar 2018, 07:24 AM
Post #3229
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- kellybhoy
- 16 Mar 2018, 01:34 AM
- Quiet Assasin
- 15 Mar 2018, 10:50 PM
- Crossraguel
- 15 Mar 2018, 10:43 PM
Anyone find a list of the 60 who voted against repeal? https://www.snp.org
Letś not adopt the ¨Ẅho are these people?¨ attitude of the zombies. We won, the Act is no more. They’re publicly elected MSPs. It’s fairly obvious that people who are interested in the OBFA might want to see who voted each way.
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tinytim81
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16 Mar 2018, 07:44 AM
Post #3230
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- idyllwild
- 16 Mar 2018, 07:24 AM
- kellybhoy
- 16 Mar 2018, 01:34 AM
- Quiet Assasin
- 15 Mar 2018, 10:50 PM
Letś not adopt the ¨Ẅho are these people?¨ attitude of the zombies. We won, the Act is no more.
They’re publicly elected MSPs. It’s fairly obvious that people who are interested in the OBFA might want to see who voted each way. Exactly. Knowing how you're local MSP's voted is the only real way you can know what issues they stand for.
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wigwam
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16 Mar 2018, 07:50 AM
Post #3231
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- justinjest
- 16 Mar 2018, 01:17 AM
- paulfg42
- 16 Mar 2018, 12:42 AM
- justinjest
- 15 Mar 2018, 11:10 PM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Why are you going on about it? Your comment that we should only have built a 50,000 seater is stupid and nonsensical.
I wasn't going on about it, I was replying to your stupid response. I'm not sure if you attend CP regularly, but if you do, you would see that there are empty seats at every home game, except the games against the scum and CL games. We only need a 61,000 stadium about 5 times a season, the rest of the time there are plenty of empty seats - if fans want to get a ticket for games, apart from the scum and CL, they will get one (unfortunately, these are the games that fans tend to want to attend). Do you realise building a stadium with a bigger capacity than Ibrox was how Fergus ensured our income could out-strip the huns? By about 10k - 15k per home game before Murray filled in the corners to try to plug the gap. Over the years that proved a decisive factor in them having to cheat themselves to death to try to match us.
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remy mcswain
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16 Mar 2018, 08:05 AM
Post #3232
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- justinjest
- 16 Mar 2018, 01:20 AM
- searcher52
- 16 Mar 2018, 01:03 AM
- paulfg42
- 16 Mar 2018, 12:42 AM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
If CP is too big, why don't they just close off some areas. They could cover the seats in the closed areas with some sort out tarpaulin, maybe even put adverts of the tarp?
because fans have ST's for seats throughout the stadium, so in order to close off sections, they'd need to move fans who probably don't like the alternative seats that they would be offered. Outwith the scum & CL games, when was the last time CP was full? Hibs was sold out. Zenit as well afaik.
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Wailer
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16 Mar 2018, 08:10 AM
Post #3233
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- remy mcswain
- 16 Mar 2018, 08:05 AM
- justinjest
- 16 Mar 2018, 01:20 AM
- searcher52
- 16 Mar 2018, 01:03 AM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
because fans have ST's for seats throughout the stadium, so in order to close off sections, they'd need to move fans who probably don't like the alternative seats that they would be offered. Outwith the scum & CL games, when was the last time CP was full?
Hibs was sold out. Zenit as well afaik. There were more at the Hibs game than the hun game.
Good to see the act being squashed but I expect the police will just come up with more BoTP charges now.
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Jimmy_mac
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16 Mar 2018, 08:21 AM
Post #3234
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- remy mcswain
- 16 Mar 2018, 08:05 AM
- justinjest
- 16 Mar 2018, 01:20 AM
- searcher52
- 16 Mar 2018, 01:03 AM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
because fans have ST's for seats throughout the stadium, so in order to close off sections, they'd need to move fans who probably don't like the alternative seats that they would be offered. Outwith the scum & CL games, when was the last time CP was full?
Hibs was sold out. Zenit as well afaik. Average league attendance this season 57,633, highest league attendance 59,259. Averages skewed due to a few mid-week matches against smaller opposition. I know that the figures include ST holders who don't always attend but the demand is there and more importantly, the income. Reducing the capacity may mean the stadium looks full, but the loss of those 7633 tickets on average is a reduction in income.
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san meegs
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16 Mar 2018, 08:52 AM
Post #3235
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- remy mcswain
- 16 Mar 2018, 08:05 AM
- justinjest
- 16 Mar 2018, 01:20 AM
- searcher52
- 16 Mar 2018, 01:03 AM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
because fans have ST's for seats throughout the stadium, so in order to close off sections, they'd need to move fans who probably don't like the alternative seats that they would be offered. Outwith the scum & CL games, when was the last time CP was full?
Hibs was sold out. Zenit as well afaik. Aberdeen before Christmas was a total sellout too.
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idyllwild
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16 Mar 2018, 11:01 AM
Post #3236
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- wigwam
- 16 Mar 2018, 07:50 AM
- justinjest
- 16 Mar 2018, 01:17 AM
- paulfg42
- 16 Mar 2018, 12:42 AM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
I wasn't going on about it, I was replying to your stupid response. I'm not sure if you attend CP regularly, but if you do, you would see that there are empty seats at every home game, except the games against the scum and CL games. We only need a 61,000 stadium about 5 times a season, the rest of the time there are plenty of empty seats - if fans want to get a ticket for games, apart from the scum and CL, they will get one (unfortunately, these are the games that fans tend to want to attend).
Do you realise building a stadium with a bigger capacity than Ibrox was how Fergus ensured our income could out-strip the huns? By about 10k - 15k per home game before Murray filled in the corners to try to plug the gap. Over the years that proved a decisive factor in them having to cheat themselves to death to try to match us. The suitability of the capacity is wholly dependent upon the team.
60k is perfect when we have success and decent football. Fits exactly into the supply/demand for our ST model. People need to buy a ST to ensure they get to the big games. 65k would be too big. 55k we’d be underselling ourselves.
On the other hand, the whole thing falls apart when we don’t have success and/or decent football. People pick and choose their games, ST sales go down because you don’t need a ST for the big games, and it becomes a self-fulfilling thing. 60k was far too big a stadium when the club is acting “small”. A 45k stadium under Deila would’ve been fine, and sold out.
That’s why the Deila thing was such a disaster, and it’s why Rodgers is such a success. It was an easy business case to invest in Rodgers, there was at least 15k of seats waiting to be taken up by absent supporters of the team was right.
How we get to the next level as a club, or what that realistic next level might be, is a much harder sell for investment. An increased capacity won’t work. There’s no scope for a huge increase in merchandise or domestic TV. Any “speculate to accumulate” investment would be to get a wee bit further in Europe. That’s not a compelling argument yet.
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justinjest
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16 Mar 2018, 11:03 AM
Post #3237
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the recent cup game against Morton had possibly the lowest attendance (20,000?) I've seen at CP in years (no doubt Celtic will say the attendance was about 35,000 as that's how many tickets were "sold"). I understand the economic superiority that the bigger ground brings, but I still think it's too big. How many do you reckon were at the last home league game against ST Johnstone - 40,000 or even less? My point about this was that there are tickets available for most matches at CP, except the premium games - the scum and the CL games. If someone wants a ticket for CP there should be no problem getting one - apart from the aforementioned games
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idyllwild
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16 Mar 2018, 11:07 AM
Post #3238
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- justinjest
- 16 Mar 2018, 11:03 AM
the recent cup game against Morton had possibly the lowest attendance (20,000?) I've seen at CP in years (no doubt Celtic will say the attendance was about 35,000 as that's how many tickets were "sold"). I understand the economic superiority that the bigger ground brings, but I still think it's too big. How many do you reckon were at the last home league game against ST Johnstone - 40,000 or even less? My point about this was that there are tickets available for most matches at CP, except the premium games - the scum and the CL games. If someone wants a ticket for CP there should be no problem getting one - apart from the aforementioned games The actual attendance doesn’t matter. As long as enough people believe they need to buy a ST, then the capacity is fine.
And as nice as a treble is, home cup ties are an irrelevant write-off in this discussion.
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fatboab
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16 Mar 2018, 11:08 AM
Post #3239
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Just before the Dawn
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well done to everyone who helped rid the country of an unjust law which appeared designed to specifically criminalise Celtic supporters.
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legal_man
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16 Mar 2018, 11:12 AM
Post #3240
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- Wailer
- 16 Mar 2018, 08:10 AM
- remy mcswain
- 16 Mar 2018, 08:05 AM
- justinjest
- 16 Mar 2018, 01:20 AM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Hibs was sold out. Zenit as well afaik.
There were more at the Hibs game than the hun game. Good to see the act being squashed but I expect the police will just come up with more BoTP charges now. They may well do, but that was always the point - existing law had already criminalised the sort of behaviour that this Act was ostensibly designed to curb.
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