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Ref Watch 2017/18; A fraternity of dunces
Topic Started: 5 Aug 2017, 03:56 PM (201,337 Views)
BombJack
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Gunner
16 Apr 2018, 10:30 AM
BombJack
16 Apr 2018, 09:09 AM
Torquemada
16 Apr 2018, 12:10 AM
Brother Bobby obviously not renewing his season book. :lol:

We took the ref out of the equation early in the match but it's churlish to say he wasn't good today. Let me just say that I was surprised at how fair be was. It would have been easy for him to have sent McCrorie off but to have given a freekick outside the box. Just saying. :thumbsup:
FWIW on first replay I thought Madden had been conned by Moussa for the pen.
Moussa was clearly having his shirt pulled though - by McCrorie - using both hands as well.
I haven't see the replay loads of times, but I think Moussa was going down of his own accord before there was any contact to induce a trip.
So shades of a dive, for me anyway.

Still a penalty though - the fouling outside the box, then in, all happened before any falling to the ground from Moussa.

That said, it took for Moussa to go down before he awarded anything - he was pulling his shirt for a good wee while before getting in the box.
So I'm not sure how Madden should have played it.

Is it protocol to blow for the freekick outside the box immediately after the initial shirt tugging foul?
Or is the ref meant to allow play to continue to see how the foul develops?
Ie playing on to see if there's an advantage to the attacker (eg a goal scoring opportunity, or a penalty if the fouling continues into the box)?

Any ideas?
If a pull starts outside the box and carries on inside it - its a foul inside the penalty area. The refs played on a few seconds to see how the play goes on, does mcrorie let him go, does dembele get away and score anyway etc. With it being a penalty and the foul being a pull - the only outcome is a red card.

Madden's called it bang on.
Agreed. 100%.

I just looked at it again, and there is actually maybe the slightest of knocks at the back of Dembele too so maybe he didn't just dive.
It's academic anyway - the initial foul is the holding offence that carries on into the box...
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TheMaestro
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Collum showed the level of refereeing we will get if the game is close/they have a chance of winning.
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IainG
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Ah but I was so much older then,I'm younger than that now
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Probably the best reffing performance in any of our games this season. (The bar isn't set high mind you.)
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weebaldy
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Never thought I'd say it but he had a good game. Still feels weird saying though ;)
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elparaiso
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I see Alonso got a three match ban for his stamp on Long. But in Scotland a blatant stamp off the ball is not worthy of action. Shameful.
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fatboab
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Just before the Dawn

Started a discussion in the midweek match thread about Craig Thompson's weird though correct decision to award Sevco a corner when he got in the way of a Celtic defenders clearance on Sunday. The referee was at least twenty yards from goal, and the ball was travelling clearly upfield. Surely the rules should allow for a dropped ball at worst, or a bye kick in those circumstances. Having said that, most Refs would immediately blow for a " foul" when the corner was taken , but he didn't do that. I understand he was applying the rules , but ffs, it was their best chance and he'd have got an assist if they had scored. :lol:
The other thing that came up was the unerring ability of Refs in this game recently to get right in our road when we are attacking, especially when we are playing our intricate short passing game in the area around the opponents box. It's like playing against an extra defender, and obviously none of it is intentional on the ref's part. :twitch: Do they always get that close to the action in other games?
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Aycliffe Bhoy
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My daughter has pointed out the refs getting in the way of our attacks to me many,many times.
She will be glad she was not imaging it :lol:
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Country Mac
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fatboab
2 May 2018, 11:26 AM
Started a discussion in the midweek match thread about Craig Thompson's weird though correct decision to award Sevco a corner when he got in the way of a Celtic defenders clearance on Sunday. The referee was at least twenty yards from goal, and the ball was travelling clearly upfield. Surely the rules should allow for a dropped ball at worst, or a bye kick in those circumstances. Having said that, most Refs would immediately blow for a " foul" when the corner was taken , but he didn't do that. I understand he was applying the rules , but ffs, it was their best chance and he'd have got an assist if they had scored. :lol:
The other thing that came up was the unerring ability of Refs in this game recently to get right in our road when we are attacking, especially when we are playing our intricate short passing game in the area around the opponents box. It's like playing against an extra defender, and obviously none of it is intentional on the ref's part. :twitch: Do they always get that close to the action in other games?
Not sure what exactly the rules are when it hits off the ref, but my understanding was the drop-ball is specifically for weird outlying situations like that. Don't think anyone on either side would have protested but to give a corner was weird.

And you're not wrong about him getting in the way. Nor is it the first time it's happened this season. I get why they need to be close to the action but he was consistently hovering on the edge of the box, never more than 10 yards away from Rogic or Ntcham or whoever it was. When you're playing at such a high tempo his presence alone can almost create the brief illusion that this particular area of the pitch is more crowded than it is. The knock on effect of this is that Forrest or whoever can have their judgement impaired when weighing up a potential pass inside that 'edge of the D' location of the pitch. This might manifest itself in a split second's hesitation, or just abandoning the pass altogether. Likewise, having the big lump there when we're playing at our pace can also briefly deter players from peeling off and holding their run a bit. It's almost like we're being sandwiched in to one area. I would like to think it's not intentional and just crap refereeing.
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Ned Rise
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Dunno. I think even if it hits the ref* and goes in it's a goal. As Fatboab says, the ref could have used a bit of common sense and blew for a 'foul' for us at the corner to avoid any potential controversy, one of those where it's hard to see what it was for.

*Or anything else, such as a Liverpool fan's beach ball for example.
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Quemelachupen
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Country Mac
2 May 2018, 11:43 AM
fatboab
2 May 2018, 11:26 AM
Started a discussion in the midweek match thread about Craig Thompson's weird though correct decision to award Sevco a corner when he got in the way of a Celtic defenders clearance on Sunday. The referee was at least twenty yards from goal, and the ball was travelling clearly upfield. Surely the rules should allow for a dropped ball at worst, or a bye kick in those circumstances. Having said that, most Refs would immediately blow for a " foul" when the corner was taken , but he didn't do that. I understand he was applying the rules , but ffs, it was their best chance and he'd have got an assist if they had scored. :lol:
The other thing that came up was the unerring ability of Refs in this game recently to get right in our road when we are attacking, especially when we are playing our intricate short passing game in the area around the opponents box. It's like playing against an extra defender, and obviously none of it is intentional on the ref's part. :twitch: Do they always get that close to the action in other games?
Not sure what exactly the rules are when it hits off the ref, but my understanding was the drop-ball is specifically for weird outlying situations like that. Don't think anyone on either side would have protested but to give a corner was weird.

And you're not wrong about him getting in the way. Nor is it the first time it's happened this season. I get why they need to be close to the action but he was consistently hovering on the edge of the box, never more than 10 yards away from Rogic or Ntcham or whoever it was. When you're playing at such a high tempo his presence alone can almost create the brief illusion that this particular area of the pitch is more crowded than it is. The knock on effect of this is that Forrest or whoever can have their judgement impaired when weighing up a potential pass inside that 'edge of the D' location of the pitch. This might manifest itself in a split second's hesitation, or just abandoning the pass altogether. Likewise, having the big lump there when we're playing at our pace can also briefly deter players from peeling off and holding their run a bit. It's almost like we're being sandwiched in to one area. I would like to think it's not intentional and just crap refereeing.
It was obvious and correct. Was always told the the ref is the same as the goal posts, crossbar and corner flags. If it hits them, just play on.
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martino
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The corner was the correct decision but as FB says the common sense thing to have done would be to have spotted "a foul" as soon as the corner was crossed in. Happens all the time when refs realise they have given a corner in error or a free-kick in error that leads to a corner.

My favourite from Sunday was him awarding advantage as soon as Rogic's goal looked like it was on its way in to cover up that he missed a clear penalty for us. Fairly sure he has previous for that as well.

Also I haven't checked back but did he book Cummings for dissent rather than the foul on Tierney? Seemed to only book him after Cummings started mouthing off at him.
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brianlara67
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If the ball hits the ref play must carry on even if the ball goes into the net for a goal off the ref. No bounce balls or indirect free kicks. Mind you a lot of the times it happens when it hits the ref and changes possession they are usually very quick to blow for some foul or other in a few seconds later - some of which could be called "soft".... But the laws state play must carry on.
Edited by brianlara67, 2 May 2018, 12:32 PM.
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15not25
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martino
2 May 2018, 12:30 PM
The corner was the correct decision but as FB says the common sense thing to have done would be to have spotted "a foul" as soon as the corner was crossed in. Happens all the time when refs realise they have given a corner in error or a free-kick in error that leads to a corner.

My favourite from Sunday was him awarding advantage as soon as Rogic's goal looked like it was on its way in to cover up that he missed a clear penalty for us. Fairly sure he has previous for that as well.

Also I haven't checked back but did he book Cummings for dissent rather than the foul on Tierney? Seemed to only book him after Cummings started mouthing off at him.
Aye, loved the advantage at Toms goal.

Early in the first half, Russell Martin is caught really far up the park, out of position. Rogic turns him and is away, and Martin takes a really cynical swipe at Rogic, worse than Dorrans on CalMac in the semi.

Nothing given at all. Shameless.
Edited by 15not25, 2 May 2018, 12:36 PM.
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Quiet Assasin
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Collum only signalled advantage at Dembele's goal at Ibrox when he was at the keeper as well.

I'm sure they're just seeing how play pans out...
Edited by Quiet Assasin, 2 May 2018, 12:37 PM.
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Kingslim
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fatboab
2 May 2018, 11:26 AM
Started a discussion in the midweek match thread about Craig Thompson's weird though correct decision to award Sevco a corner when he got in the way of a Celtic defenders clearance on Sunday. The referee was at least twenty yards from goal, and the ball was travelling clearly upfield. Surely the rules should allow for a dropped ball at worst, or a bye kick in those circumstances. Having said that, most Refs would immediately blow for a " foul" when the corner was taken , but he didn't do that. I understand he was applying the rules , but ffs, it was their best chance and he'd have got an assist if they had scored. :lol:
The other thing that came up was the unerring ability of Refs in this game recently to get right in our road when we are attacking, especially when we are playing our intricate short passing game in the area around the opponents box. It's like playing against an extra defender, and obviously none of it is intentional on the ref's part. :twitch: Do they always get that close to the action in other games?
Thomson’s positioning is terrible. I’ve lost count of the number of times he’s standing in the line where our player is looking to make a pass or blocking the route to goal when the ball is at the edge of the area.

It’s infuriating
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Timmy7
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15not25
2 May 2018, 12:36 PM
martino
2 May 2018, 12:30 PM
The corner was the correct decision but as FB says the common sense thing to have done would be to have spotted "a foul" as soon as the corner was crossed in. Happens all the time when refs realise they have given a corner in error or a free-kick in error that leads to a corner.

My favourite from Sunday was him awarding advantage as soon as Rogic's goal looked like it was on its way in to cover up that he missed a clear penalty for us. Fairly sure he has previous for that as well.

Also I haven't checked back but did he book Cummings for dissent rather than the foul on Tierney? Seemed to only book him after Cummings started mouthing off at him.
Aye, loved the advantage at Toms goal.

Early in the first half, Russell Martin is caught really far up the park, out of position. Rogic turns him and is away, and Martin takes a really cynical swipe at Rogic, worse than Dorrans on CalMac in the semi.

Nothing given at all. Shameless.
Caught that on the highlights I saw last night. Not commented on at all and I was wondering if he'd got booked for it.

Did we not get a goal from a ref assist earlier this season? I'm thinking a one, two with Scott Brown in the lead up
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elparaiso
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martino
2 May 2018, 12:30 PM
The corner was the correct decision but as FB says the common sense thing to have done would be to have spotted "a foul" as soon as the corner was crossed in. Happens all the time when refs realise they have given a corner in error or a free-kick in error that leads to a corner.

My favourite from Sunday was him awarding advantage as soon as Rogic's goal looked like it was on its way in to cover up that he missed a clear penalty for us. Fairly sure he has previous for that as well.

Also I haven't checked back but did he book Cummings for dissent rather than the foul on Tierney? Seemed to only book him after Cummings started mouthing off at him.
From the TV pictures it looked like he signalled that he had played advantage after the Rogic goal in response to a query from one of our players (presumably KT) as to why no penalty was given.

As for the Cummings booking, at the game it looked like he consulted his assistant after things calmed down and they told him it merited a booking.
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ronny_is_not_da_man
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elparaiso
2 May 2018, 12:46 PM
martino
2 May 2018, 12:30 PM
The corner was the correct decision but as FB says the common sense thing to have done would be to have spotted "a foul" as soon as the corner was crossed in. Happens all the time when refs realise they have given a corner in error or a free-kick in error that leads to a corner.

My favourite from Sunday was him awarding advantage as soon as Rogic's goal looked like it was on its way in to cover up that he missed a clear penalty for us. Fairly sure he has previous for that as well.

Also I haven't checked back but did he book Cummings for dissent rather than the foul on Tierney? Seemed to only book him after Cummings started mouthing off at him.
From the TV pictures it looked like he signalled that he had played advantage after the Rogic goal in response to a query from one of our players (presumably KT) as to why no penalty was given.

As for the Cummings booking, at the game it looked like he consulted his assistant after things calmed down and they told him it merited a booking.
He was at it. The advantage signal should have come straight away to indicate he seen it and was going to award a penalty. He wasn't giving it.
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stevie21
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elparaiso
2 May 2018, 12:46 PM
martino
2 May 2018, 12:30 PM
The corner was the correct decision but as FB says the common sense thing to have done would be to have spotted "a foul" as soon as the corner was crossed in. Happens all the time when refs realise they have given a corner in error or a free-kick in error that leads to a corner.

My favourite from Sunday was him awarding advantage as soon as Rogic's goal looked like it was on its way in to cover up that he missed a clear penalty for us. Fairly sure he has previous for that as well.

Also I haven't checked back but did he book Cummings for dissent rather than the foul on Tierney? Seemed to only book him after Cummings started mouthing off at him.
From the TV pictures it looked like he signalled that he had played advantage after the Rogic goal in response to a query from one of our players (presumably KT) as to why no penalty was given.

As for the Cummings booking, at the game it looked like he consulted his assistant after things calmed down and they told him it merited a booking.
No chance - watch it again
http://kerrydalestreet.co.uk/single/?p=30857250&t=11072414

He sees the ball hit the net, KT is practically face down as that happens and the ref starts walking backwards up the park and signals an advantage. It's the goal that triggers that action from the ref, not any player.

Here's the ball about to hit the net >

Spoiler: click to toggle
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noelab
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ronny_is_not_da_man
2 May 2018, 12:48 PM
elparaiso
2 May 2018, 12:46 PM
martino
2 May 2018, 12:30 PM
The corner was the correct decision but as FB says the common sense thing to have done would be to have spotted "a foul" as soon as the corner was crossed in. Happens all the time when refs realise they have given a corner in error or a free-kick in error that leads to a corner.

My favourite from Sunday was him awarding advantage as soon as Rogic's goal looked like it was on its way in to cover up that he missed a clear penalty for us. Fairly sure he has previous for that as well.

Also I haven't checked back but did he book Cummings for dissent rather than the foul on Tierney? Seemed to only book him after Cummings started mouthing off at him.
From the TV pictures it looked like he signalled that he had played advantage after the Rogic goal in response to a query from one of our players (presumably KT) as to why no penalty was given.

As for the Cummings booking, at the game it looked like he consulted his assistant after things calmed down and they told him it merited a booking.
He was at it. The advantage signal should have come straight away to indicate he seen it and was going to award a penalty. He wasn't giving it.
Technically he should show advantage once it’s established that he isn’t going back to the original infringement, i.e. advantage is being played.

Benefit of the doubt I’d say this time.
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