Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Welcome to Kerrydale Street. We hope you enjoy your visit.

You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use.

If you decide to register, please be aware that we don't accept email addresses from free web accounts like gmail, Hotmail, live.co.uk etc. Sorry, but almost all of the abuse and spam that we get is from free web accounts. The software on the forum will automatically block any requests using a free email account.

Upon Registration, you will be given access to all our varied Forums, and you will be expected to comply with our fairly stringent Rules and Regulations. Meantime, enjoy your visit

If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
Ref Watch 2017/18; A fraternity of dunces
Topic Started: 5 Aug 2017, 03:56 PM (201,338 Views)
Gallowgate
Member Avatar
First-team captain
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Bavarian Bhoy
15 Apr 2018, 06:54 PM
That match should put the "just incompetent" theory to bed.

Madden was very good today.
There were no decisions to make at all for quite some time because the huns couldnt even get near us.
We totally dominated and were out of sight when he had his first decisions to make.
He made good decisions and applied the rules of the game.
Something he failed every time when the games were closer.

Incompetence my arse.
“We’ll also need to do enough to take Madden clean out of the equation.”

Part of my post in the pre match thread and that’s what we did as the hun chased shadows from start to finish. If the game had been close it would have been an entirely different story.

Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
beaumontbhoy
Member Avatar
Getting on a bit
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Think he was very good today. When your only complaint is giving rangers a few soft fouls then you know he done ok. He is in general a vastly superior ref to collum, Thomson or McLean
Edited by beaumontbhoy, 16 Apr 2018, 07:47 AM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
paranoid_and_proud
Member Avatar
Getting on a bit
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Madden had a very good game yesterday.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Grafenwalder
Club Captain
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Very good performance from Madden. Took the time to get the first penalty decision absolutely right. That wee child that Moussa had ragdolled for 50 minutes had to go too. Euthenasia really.

I agree that this puts paid to the theory that previous terrible decisions have been down to simple incompetence. I'm thinking of the Griffiths non-penalty in the last minute and, even worse, his playing on and running past a player he had just seen take a serious head-knock because Aberdeen had a good chance to score against Celtic.

For me, that decision was down to the referee's personal allegiance. The Griffiths one, he could argue that he didn't see it clearly enough to award a penalty.
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
BombJack
Member Avatar
He twists, he turns, Tommy Burns...
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Torquemada
16 Apr 2018, 12:10 AM
Brother Bobby obviously not renewing his season book. :lol:

We took the ref out of the equation early in the match but it's churlish to say he wasn't good today. Let me just say that I was surprised at how fair be was. It would have been easy for him to have sent McCrorie off but to have given a freekick outside the box. Just saying. :thumbsup:
FWIW on first replay I thought Madden had been conned by Moussa for the pen.
Moussa was clearly having his shirt pulled though - by McCrorie - using both hands as well.
I haven't see the replay loads of times, but I think Moussa was going down of his own accord before there was any contact to induce a trip.
So shades of a dive, for me anyway.

Still a penalty though - the fouling outside the box, then in, all happened before any falling to the ground from Moussa.

That said, it took for Moussa to go down before he awarded anything - he was pulling his shirt for a good wee while before getting in the box.
So I'm not sure how Madden should have played it.

Is it protocol to blow for the freekick outside the box immediately after the initial shirt tugging foul?
Or is the ref meant to allow play to continue to see how the foul develops?
Ie playing on to see if there's an advantage to the attacker (eg a goal scoring opportunity, or a penalty if the fouling continues into the box)?

Any ideas?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
BombJack
Member Avatar
He twists, he turns, Tommy Burns...
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Grafenwalder
16 Apr 2018, 08:49 AM
Very good performance from Madden. Took the time to get the first penalty decision absolutely right. That wee child that Moussa had ragdolled for 50 minutes had to go too. Euthenasia really.

I agree that this puts paid to the theory that previous terrible decisions have been down to simple incompetence. I'm thinking of the Griffiths non-penalty in the last minute and, even worse, his playing on and running past a player he had just seen take a serious head-knock because Aberdeen had a good chance to score against Celtic.

For me, that decision was down to the referee's personal allegiance. The Griffiths one, he could argue that he didn't see it clearly enough to award a penalty.
See, the Griffiths last minute one I think is a red herring.
The defender can't even see the ball when he makes the challenge - Hill made a reckless attempt at making contact with the ball, but quite obviously wiped out the attacker.
It's only in the slow mo replay that you can see that he maybe actually does make the slightest of contacts with the ball - after he's wiped out Griff.
How the ref can see that contact in real time is beyond me - but he COULD see that Hill made a reckless attempt which wiped out Griff when he did have a clear goal scoring opportunity.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Ned Rise
Member Avatar
These boots were made for hunbustin'
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
BombJack
16 Apr 2018, 09:09 AM
Torquemada
16 Apr 2018, 12:10 AM
Brother Bobby obviously not renewing his season book. :lol:

We took the ref out of the equation early in the match but it's churlish to say he wasn't good today. Let me just say that I was surprised at how fair be was. It would have been easy for him to have sent McCrorie off but to have given a freekick outside the box. Just saying. :thumbsup:
FWIW on first replay I thought Madden had been conned by Moussa for the pen.
Moussa was clearly having his shirt pulled though - by McCrorie - using both hands as well.
I haven't see the replay loads of times, but I think Moussa was going down of his own accord before there was any contact to induce a trip.
So shades of a dive, for me anyway.

Still a penalty though - the fouling outside the box, then in, all happened before any falling to the ground from Moussa.

That said, it took for Moussa to go down before he awarded anything - he was pulling his shirt for a good wee while before getting in the box.
So I'm not sure how Madden should have played it.

Is it protocol to blow for the freekick outside the box immediately after the initial shirt tugging foul?
Or is the ref meant to allow play to continue to see how the foul develops?
Ie playing on to see if there's an advantage to the attacker (eg a goal scoring opportunity, or a penalty if the fouling continues into the box)?

Any ideas?
I think you're looking into it to much. It was a clear penalty all day long. McCrorie knew it and even zombie TV said it.

There was no hint of a dive.

Madden had a decent game yesterday. There was talk about the entire team of officials being wrong uns but it was reffed fair and square. Only thing I thought he blew too quickly for the second penalty instead of waiting to see if Sinclair would score from the advantage.

It didn't matter either way in the end though.
Edited by Ned Rise, 16 Apr 2018, 09:24 AM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Dubz
Getting on a bit
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
He’ll only cheat when it’s worthwhile. The evidence is there for us all to see.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Quiet Assasin
Member Avatar
..for the maintenance of dinner tables for the children and the unemployed
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Didn't g t his card out quick enough for some Hun nonsense.

Had to make decisions he had to.

Still a pumpkin.
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
BombJack
Member Avatar
He twists, he turns, Tommy Burns...
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Ned Rise
16 Apr 2018, 09:23 AM
BombJack
16 Apr 2018, 09:09 AM
Torquemada
16 Apr 2018, 12:10 AM
Brother Bobby obviously not renewing his season book. :lol:

We took the ref out of the equation early in the match but it's churlish to say he wasn't good today. Let me just say that I was surprised at how fair be was. It would have been easy for him to have sent McCrorie off but to have given a freekick outside the box. Just saying. :thumbsup:
FWIW on first replay I thought Madden had been conned by Moussa for the pen.
Moussa was clearly having his shirt pulled though - by McCrorie - using both hands as well.
I haven't see the replay loads of times, but I think Moussa was going down of his own accord before there was any contact to induce a trip.
So shades of a dive, for me anyway.

Still a penalty though - the fouling outside the box, then in, all happened before any falling to the ground from Moussa.

That said, it took for Moussa to go down before he awarded anything - he was pulling his shirt for a good wee while before getting in the box.
So I'm not sure how Madden should have played it.

Is it protocol to blow for the freekick outside the box immediately after the initial shirt tugging foul?
Or is the ref meant to allow play to continue to see how the foul develops?
Ie playing on to see if there's an advantage to the attacker (eg a goal scoring opportunity, or a penalty if the fouling continues into the box)?

Any ideas?
I think you're looking into it to much. It was a clear penalty all day long. McCrorie knew it and even zombie TV said it.

There was no hint of a dive.

Madden had a decent game yesterday. There was talk about the entire team of officials being wrong uns but it was reffed fair and square. Only thing I thought he blew too quickly for the second penalty instead of waiting to see if Sinclair would score from the advantage.

It didn't matter either way in the end though.
I never said it wasn't a penalty - I thought it was, based on my understanding of the laws.

But I also think Dembele possibly went down without anything to induce the fall - other than him making the decision to go down.
Doesn't mean it wasn't a penalty...

I have no qualms about a player going down who is being fouled - because until the refs get better and make the calls faster, sometimes going down is the thing that highlights the foul taking place - and this is maybe one of those cases.
I have a problem with players going down due to simulation...
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Grafenwalder
Club Captain
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
BombJack
16 Apr 2018, 09:09 AM
Torquemada
16 Apr 2018, 12:10 AM
Brother Bobby obviously not renewing his season book. :lol:

We took the ref out of the equation early in the match but it's churlish to say he wasn't good today. Let me just say that I was surprised at how fair be was. It would have been easy for him to have sent McCrorie off but to have given a freekick outside the box. Just saying. :thumbsup:
FWIW on first replay I thought Madden had been conned by Moussa for the pen.
Moussa was clearly having his shirt pulled though - by McCrorie - using both hands as well.
I haven't see the replay loads of times, but I think Moussa was going down of his own accord before there was any contact to induce a trip.
So shades of a dive, for me anyway.

Still a penalty though - the fouling outside the box, then in, all happened before any falling to the ground from Moussa.

That said, it took for Moussa to go down before he awarded anything - he was pulling his shirt for a good wee while before getting in the box.
So I'm not sure how Madden should have played it.

Is it protocol to blow for the freekick outside the box immediately after the initial shirt tugging foul?
Or is the ref meant to allow play to continue to see how the foul develops?
Ie playing on to see if there's an advantage to the attacker (eg a goal scoring opportunity, or a penalty if the fouling continues into the box)?

Any ideas?
If you watch the replays, you will see that it's a pretty straightforward decision.

Sure, he originally fouled him outside the box but the boy tried to pass it back to the keeper and miskicked it. Moussa was then goal-side and inside the box. He still has a hold of his shirt/shorts when Moussa goes down, well inside the box.

Aye, if he wanted to, he could have gone down at the original foul and it would have been a freekick and red. Instead, he tried to muscle past him to score. Once inside the box, the odds changed so he went down. Excellent striker play really.
Online Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
mick82
Retired and now a BT Sports pundit
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Quiet Assasin
16 Apr 2018, 09:26 AM
Didn't g t his card out quick enough for some Hun nonsense.

Had to make decisions he had to.

Still a pumpkin.
Agree with that in general.

Lustig's was a booking but it was ridiculous that thatvwas the first of the match. Dorrans was let away with a few and Morelos was basically asking to be sent off after he eventually got booked.

Thatvsaid, credit where it's due, he got the big calls right
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
LoveCeltic
First name on the team-sheet
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Madden was ok. His decision to book Lustig straight after quite a few worse fouls by the Huns that went unpunished was his standard. How Dorrans got away with as many kicks as he did isn't surprising with Madden in charge either.

He gave two penalties that he really couldn't have ignored and only once 2-0 down.

Hardly "excellent". Just fair, and it's questionable he would've been as fair if it had been 0-0.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
LoveCeltic
First name on the team-sheet
[ *  *  *  *  *  * ]
BombJack
16 Apr 2018, 09:16 AM
Grafenwalder
16 Apr 2018, 08:49 AM
Very good performance from Madden. Took the time to get the first penalty decision absolutely right. That wee child that Moussa had ragdolled for 50 minutes had to go too. Euthenasia really.

I agree that this puts paid to the theory that previous terrible decisions have been down to simple incompetence. I'm thinking of the Griffiths non-penalty in the last minute and, even worse, his playing on and running past a player he had just seen take a serious head-knock because Aberdeen had a good chance to score against Celtic.

For me, that decision was down to the referee's personal allegiance. The Griffiths one, he could argue that he didn't see it clearly enough to award a penalty.
See, the Griffiths last minute one I think is a red herring.
The defender can't even see the ball when he makes the challenge - Hill made a reckless attempt at making contact with the ball, but quite obviously wiped out the attacker.
It's only in the slow mo replay that you can see that he maybe actually does make the slightest of contacts with the ball - after he's wiped out Griff.
How the ref can see that contact in real time is beyond me - but he COULD see that Hill made a reckless attempt which wiped out Griff when he did have a clear goal scoring opportunity.
this and your post above it :suspect:
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Otis B Driftwood
Member Avatar
Satisfaction came in a chain reaction
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Dubz
16 Apr 2018, 09:24 AM
He’ll only cheat when it’s worthwhile. The evidence is there for us all to see.
He wants a Cup Final gig in seasons to come; he's not going to jeopardise his chances by fecking up big decsions in a semi-final.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
stevie21
Member Avatar
Poster of the Tuesday afternoon!
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Stockholm87
15 Apr 2018, 10:21 PM
CJThunderbird
15 Apr 2018, 10:09 PM
Bryce Curdy
15 Apr 2018, 09:32 PM
2 minutes of injury time in the first half with Sevco on a rare attack after one substitution and no injuries? Other than that he wasn't excellent but was competent.
He had to bring the game to a stop for at least a minute and get the players to stamp the balloons on the pitch.
I believe it's the 4th official who decides the time added on.
I'm sure I looked it up recently and initially thought the fourth official had more of an input than he actually does. It's the ref's decision, I'm sure
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
BombJack
Member Avatar
He twists, he turns, Tommy Burns...
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
Grafenwalder
16 Apr 2018, 09:46 AM
BombJack
16 Apr 2018, 09:09 AM
Torquemada
16 Apr 2018, 12:10 AM
Brother Bobby obviously not renewing his season book. :lol:

We took the ref out of the equation early in the match but it's churlish to say he wasn't good today. Let me just say that I was surprised at how fair be was. It would have been easy for him to have sent McCrorie off but to have given a freekick outside the box. Just saying. :thumbsup:
FWIW on first replay I thought Madden had been conned by Moussa for the pen.
Moussa was clearly having his shirt pulled though - by McCrorie - using both hands as well.
I haven't see the replay loads of times, but I think Moussa was going down of his own accord before there was any contact to induce a trip.
So shades of a dive, for me anyway.

Still a penalty though - the fouling outside the box, then in, all happened before any falling to the ground from Moussa.

That said, it took for Moussa to go down before he awarded anything - he was pulling his shirt for a good wee while before getting in the box.
So I'm not sure how Madden should have played it.

Is it protocol to blow for the freekick outside the box immediately after the initial shirt tugging foul?
Or is the ref meant to allow play to continue to see how the foul develops?
Ie playing on to see if there's an advantage to the attacker (eg a goal scoring opportunity, or a penalty if the fouling continues into the box)?

Any ideas?
If you watch the replays, you will see that it's a pretty straightforward decision.

Sure, he originally fouled him outside the box but the boy tried to pass it back to the keeper and miskicked it. Moussa was then goal-side and inside the box. He still has a hold of his shirt/shorts when Moussa goes down, well inside the box.

Aye, if he wanted to, he could have gone down at the original foul and it would have been a freekick and red. Instead, he tried to muscle past him to score. Once inside the box, the odds changed so he went down. Excellent striker play really.
It is a straightforward decision assuming you know that if a holding offence is initiated outside the box, but continues inside the box, it's a penalty.
That's the be-all and end-all of it. I haven't looked at the current laws on this - but I assume it's still the case - it's well documented that this is the way the law should be applied.
This is the first thing I found in a quick google search.

"if a defender starts holding an attacker outside the penalty areas but continues holding inside the penalty area, the referee shall award a penalty kick".

https://www.fifa.com/mm/document/afdeveloping/refereeing/law_12_fouls_misconduct_en_47379.pdf

http://asktheref.com/Soccer%20Rules/Question/22236/

And imho, Moussa went down of his own accord (wasn't induced to go down by a trip - any trip inducing foot contact happened after he started to go down imo).
All I said was, the first time I saw the replay I thought it was a dive - but almost immediately realised he was having his shirt pulled before he went down.
The holding offence occurred first - so it's a penalty.

See - if Moussa had done that without the shirt pulls, it would have been a blatant dive - imho.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Ned Rise
Member Avatar
These boots were made for hunbustin'
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
BombJack
16 Apr 2018, 10:15 AM
Grafenwalder
16 Apr 2018, 09:46 AM
BombJack
16 Apr 2018, 09:09 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
If you watch the replays, you will see that it's a pretty straightforward decision.

Sure, he originally fouled him outside the box but the boy tried to pass it back to the keeper and miskicked it. Moussa was then goal-side and inside the box. He still has a hold of his shirt/shorts when Moussa goes down, well inside the box.

Aye, if he wanted to, he could have gone down at the original foul and it would have been a freekick and red. Instead, he tried to muscle past him to score. Once inside the box, the odds changed so he went down. Excellent striker play really.
It is a straightforward decision assuming you know that if a holding offence is initiated outside the box, but continues inside the box, it's a penalty.
That's the be-all and end-all of it. I haven't looked at the current laws on this - but I assume it's still the case - it's well documented that this is the way the law should be applied.
This is the first thing I found in a quick google search.

"if a defender starts holding an attacker outside the penalty areas but continues holding inside the penalty area, the referee shall award a penalty kick".

https://www.fifa.com/mm/document/afdeveloping/refereeing/law_12_fouls_misconduct_en_47379.pdf

http://asktheref.com/Soccer%20Rules/Question/22236/

And imho, Moussa went down of his own accord (wasn't induced to go down by a trip - any trip inducing foot contact happened after he started to go down imo).
All I said was, the first time I saw the replay I thought it was a dive - but almost immediately realised he was having his shirt pulled before he went down.
The holding offence occurred first - so it's a penalty.

See - if Moussa had done that without the shirt pulls, it would have been a blatant dive - imho.
What made McCrorie go down?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
green_equals_silver
Member Avatar
Bobinho9
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
No complaints about the officials yesterday, got all the big decisions correct and never made themselves a talking point. Can't ask for much more tbh.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Gunner
Member Avatar
I'll play anywhere, as long as I get a game!
[ *  *  *  *  *  *  * ]
BombJack
16 Apr 2018, 09:09 AM
Torquemada
16 Apr 2018, 12:10 AM
Brother Bobby obviously not renewing his season book. :lol:

We took the ref out of the equation early in the match but it's churlish to say he wasn't good today. Let me just say that I was surprised at how fair be was. It would have been easy for him to have sent McCrorie off but to have given a freekick outside the box. Just saying. :thumbsup:
FWIW on first replay I thought Madden had been conned by Moussa for the pen.
Moussa was clearly having his shirt pulled though - by McCrorie - using both hands as well.
I haven't see the replay loads of times, but I think Moussa was going down of his own accord before there was any contact to induce a trip.
So shades of a dive, for me anyway.

Still a penalty though - the fouling outside the box, then in, all happened before any falling to the ground from Moussa.

That said, it took for Moussa to go down before he awarded anything - he was pulling his shirt for a good wee while before getting in the box.
So I'm not sure how Madden should have played it.

Is it protocol to blow for the freekick outside the box immediately after the initial shirt tugging foul?
Or is the ref meant to allow play to continue to see how the foul develops?
Ie playing on to see if there's an advantage to the attacker (eg a goal scoring opportunity, or a penalty if the fouling continues into the box)?

Any ideas?
If a pull starts outside the box and carries on inside it - its a foul inside the penalty area. The refs played on a few seconds to see how the play goes on, does mcrorie let him go, does dembele get away and score anyway etc. With it being a penalty and the foul being a pull - the only outcome is a red card.

Madden's called it bang on.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Celtic Football Club Discussion Forum · Next Topic »
Add Reply