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Ref Watch 2017/18; A fraternity of dunces
Topic Started: 5 Aug 2017, 03:56 PM (201,372 Views)
shugmc
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I was there
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mick405
26 Feb 2018, 01:43 PM
It's amazing when you see someone on here arguing black is white, with a effing brain surgeon :lol:

"Agree to disagree"... :lol:
:lmao:
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san meegs
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...
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Thomson for Wednesday night I see.

Can't see him getting the game at Ibrox too, as that would be two league games on the trot reffing us.

Suppose that leaves Collum or McLean for that one.

Edit: McLean has the Huns tomorrow night. Collum in all likelihood for Ibrox then.
Edited by san meegs, 26 Feb 2018, 02:46 PM.
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paulfg42
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Fiat justitia ruat caelum
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CelticMad123
26 Feb 2018, 12:46 PM
BardseyCelt
26 Feb 2018, 12:43 PM
CelticMad123
26 Feb 2018, 12:41 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Look up. You'll see I have a clear position on perceived ref bias.

So you're saying that the ref doesn't know if it's serious or not, but the player is lying down holding his face after a head knock, and the correct decision was to go "he's probably alright". Pish.
Your not understanding the point.

The ref needs to make a judgement call. If the ball goe sinto the middle of the park he stops the game. To stop a clear 3v1 attack for a team that done nothing wrong in the injury when hes not sure the players seriously injured would have been silly. He lets play go on, the attack finishes quickly and he gets the player seen to.

If aberdeen passed the ball back rather than going forward when in the box the ref would hopefully have at that point stopped play due to the injury.
The referee isn't qualified to make a judgement call on a head injury, which is why the play should have been stopped immediately to allow medical personnel to make that judgement.

The fact Ajer recovered doesn't make Madden's decision correct.
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Goodbye Sevillian
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san meegs
26 Feb 2018, 02:44 PM
Thomson for Wednesday night I see.

Can't see him getting the game at Ibrox too, as that would be two league games on the trot reffing us.

Suppose that leaves Collum or McLean for that one.

Edit: McLean has the Huns tomorrow night. Collum in all likelihood for Ibrox then.
Don't rule out Clancy.
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jim62
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up on the roof!!

mick405
26 Feb 2018, 01:43 PM
It's amazing when you see someone on here arguing black is white, with a effing brain surgeon :lol:

"Agree to disagree"... :lol:
there is nothing intrinsically wrong with arguing with a brain surgeon ;)

but it is pretty daft to do so about head injuries and concussion :lol:
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mick405
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jim62
26 Feb 2018, 02:52 PM
mick405
26 Feb 2018, 01:43 PM
It's amazing when you see someone on here arguing black is white, with a effing brain surgeon :lol:

"Agree to disagree"... :lol:
there is nothing intrinsically wrong with arguing with a brain surgeon ;)

but it is pretty daft to do so about head injuries and concussion :lol:
:lol:

You lawyers eh? Always looking for an argument! :boxer:
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Adam Smith 11
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CelticMad123
26 Feb 2018, 01:22 PM
Dempele
26 Feb 2018, 01:21 PM
CelticMad123
26 Feb 2018, 01:16 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
One of the umpteen soft free kicks he gave Aberdeen deep in our half would have became big decisions if they scored. And they defo should have from jozos in first 10 mins. He's an awful ref.
im not saying hes a good ref, what im saying is the big flash points got dealt with appropriately.

How many times recently have we seen similar assaults like the one on brown go unpunished or a yellow card when its been against us? it was a surprise he pulled his red card out.

Without being overly dramatic how could any ref know he hadn’t swallowed his tongue or similar., he can’t and that is the point which is why he should err on the side of caution.

If a player going down with a head knock holding his bloodied head is not deemed as serious then it is a pointless definition. A head knock is probably the most serious injury you can get and the one that immediacy of attention will have most impact on the end outcome.

You don’t need to be a rocket surgeon to know that.


Edited by Adam Smith 11, 26 Feb 2018, 03:22 PM.
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stevie21
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CelticMad123
26 Feb 2018, 11:34 AM
Willie Wonka
26 Feb 2018, 11:29 AM
CelticMad123
26 Feb 2018, 11:19 AM
I think in this case Madden makes the right call.

2 Celtic players wipe each other out. Ajer goes down but is moving, Possible also making noise that Madden can here. Aberdeen are through and have a dangerous attack that is likely to be over within a few seconds. He allows the game to flow then straight away turns back to Ajer and signals for treatment.

Edit to say we got something like this in our favour as well in the champions league qualifiers, the 5 nil game.
Two head knocks. Twice the reason to stop play but he saw an opportunity

eff him
see above, theirs no rule for head injury's.

This is from the FA, but you wouldn't think they'd have a different approach to us on the subject.

Quote:
 
Play is allowed to continue until the ball is out of play if a player is, in their opinion, only slightly injured
Play is stopped if, in their opinion, a player is seriously injured or receives a head injury

http://www.thefa.com/-/media/cfa/global/files/referees/treatment-of-injuries-guidance.ashx
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Adam Smith 11
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mick405
26 Feb 2018, 01:43 PM
It's amazing when you see someone on here arguing black is white, with a effing brain surgeon :lol:

"Agree to disagree"... :lol:
:lol:
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pablo5
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jim62
26 Feb 2018, 02:52 PM
mick405
26 Feb 2018, 01:43 PM
It's amazing when you see someone on here arguing black is white, with a effing brain surgeon :lol:

"Agree to disagree"... :lol:
there is nothing intrinsically wrong with arguing with a brain surgeon ;)

but it is pretty daft to do so about head injuries and concussion :lol:
I've had enough arguments with lawyers about these issues.

As long as you are able to back up what you're saying with facts and references, it's never a problem.
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Kingslim
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pablo5
26 Feb 2018, 01:04 PM
CelticMad123
26 Feb 2018, 12:58 PM
pablo5
26 Feb 2018, 12:55 PM
The ref should stop play for a head injury. End of story.

If Ajer had been unconscious and had problems as a result of a delay in getting medical help, Madden would have been in serious bother.

While the laws of the game state simply that the ref has to stop the match if a player is seriously injured in his opinion, concussion is specifically listed in the FIFA guidelines as a serious injury.

Celtic should be complaining about this one, he's put a player at quite significant risk.

Stopping play for a more minor injury does bring into question whether a team would be disadvantaged, but that's a different situation.
Where does it say the ref should stop play for an injury?

have you read the laws of the game?
Yes and clearly you haven't.

Law 5, the eighth Power and Duty of a referee.

Page 21 of the latest edition, about halfway down the page.

Away and read it yourself, then come back with your shine box and we can resume your lesson for the day.
:lol: :lol:
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pablo5
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Whatever it is, there's not enough of it
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Adam Smith 11
26 Feb 2018, 03:17 PM
CelticMad123
26 Feb 2018, 01:22 PM
Dempele
26 Feb 2018, 01:21 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
im not saying hes a good ref, what im saying is the big flash points got dealt with appropriately.

How many times recently have we seen similar assaults like the one on brown go unpunished or a yellow card when its been against us? it was a surprise he pulled his red card out.

Without being overly dramatic how could any ref know he hadn’t swallowed his tongue or similar., he can’t and that is the point which is why he should err on the side of caution.

If a player going down with a head knock holding his bloodied head is not deemed as serious then it is a pointless definition. A head knock is probably the most serious injury you can get and the one that immediacy of attention will have most impact on the end outcome.


To be completely fair, if you look at Madden's position when Ajer is injured, he's looking right at it and runs by him, so he'd have known if he was conscious.

However, he'd also have been aware that he was making a decision to delay stopping the game for a head injury bad enough to put a player on the ground.

He's made a very subjective decision about how badly injured Ajer was. I would argue that he's taken a big gamble, because the laws and guidelines by which he's supposed to make that decision do not support what he did.
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westendtim
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Adam Smith 11
26 Feb 2018, 03:20 PM
mick405
26 Feb 2018, 01:43 PM
It's amazing when you see someone on here arguing black is white, with a effing brain surgeon :lol:

"Agree to disagree"... :lol:
:lol:
Along the lines of " I know I'm wrong however don't want to admit it" :ffs:
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Kingslim
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Dempele
26 Feb 2018, 01:33 PM
The Wizard of Tim
26 Feb 2018, 01:30 PM
Grafenwalder
26 Feb 2018, 01:21 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
This is how it is done- its a percentage game they play- Keep up the pressure or release the pressure to help. Often done at corners when the whistle is blown or not blown. The same with stopping the game or allowing it to flow.

We rarely benefit- Sevco often do.

We will not be allowed to win 10 in a row.
This.
No carrot will stop us winning 10.

Not the Huns, Not the SFA, and certainly not Jim Fleming and his band of merry men.

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Adam Smith 11
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pablo5
26 Feb 2018, 03:25 PM
Adam Smith 11
26 Feb 2018, 03:17 PM
CelticMad123
26 Feb 2018, 01:22 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep

Without being overly dramatic how could any ref know he hadn’t swallowed his tongue or similar., he can’t and that is the point which is why he should err on the side of caution.

If a player going down with a head knock holding his bloodied head is not deemed as serious then it is a pointless definition. A head knock is probably the most serious injury you can get and the one that immediacy of attention will have most impact on the end outcome.


To be completely fair, if you look at Madden's position when Ajer is injured, he's looking right at it and runs by him, so he'd have known if he was conscious.

However, he'd also have been aware that he was making a decision to delay stopping the game for a head injury bad enough to put a player on the ground.

He's made a very subjective decision about how badly injured Ajer was. I would argue that he's taken a big gamble, because the laws and guidelines by which he's supposed to make that decision do not support what he did.
Can’t argue with that :lol:
Edited by Adam Smith 11, 26 Feb 2018, 03:29 PM.
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Kingslim
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mick405
26 Feb 2018, 02:55 PM
jim62
26 Feb 2018, 02:52 PM
mick405
26 Feb 2018, 01:43 PM
It's amazing when you see someone on here arguing black is white, with a effing brain surgeon :lol:

"Agree to disagree"... :lol:
there is nothing intrinsically wrong with arguing with a brain surgeon ;)

but it is pretty daft to do so about head injuries and concussion :lol:
:lol:

You lawyers eh? Always looking for an argument! :boxer:
That’s how they get paid :lol:
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stevie21
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pablo5
26 Feb 2018, 03:25 PM
Adam Smith 11
26 Feb 2018, 03:17 PM
CelticMad123
26 Feb 2018, 01:22 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep

Without being overly dramatic how could any ref know he hadn’t swallowed his tongue or similar., he can’t and that is the point which is why he should err on the side of caution.

If a player going down with a head knock holding his bloodied head is not deemed as serious then it is a pointless definition. A head knock is probably the most serious injury you can get and the one that immediacy of attention will have most impact on the end outcome.


To be completely fair, if you look at Madden's position when Ajer is injured, he's looking right at it and runs by him, so he'd have known if he was conscious.

However, he'd also have been aware that he was making a decision to delay stopping the game for a head injury bad enough to put a player on the ground.

He's made a very subjective decision about how badly injured Ajer was. I would argue that he's taken a big gamble, because the laws and guidelines by which he's supposed to make that decision do not support what he did.
Agree - if ever a ref is under instruction to err on the side of caution it's here. The benefit from allowing play to continue is far outweighed by the cost of delaying treatment for a player who could need medical attention.
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Adam Smith 11
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stevie21
26 Feb 2018, 03:44 PM
pablo5
26 Feb 2018, 03:25 PM
Adam Smith 11
26 Feb 2018, 03:17 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
To be completely fair, if you look at Madden's position when Ajer is injured, he's looking right at it and runs by him, so he'd have known if he was conscious.

However, he'd also have been aware that he was making a decision to delay stopping the game for a head injury bad enough to put a player on the ground.

He's made a very subjective decision about how badly injured Ajer was. I would argue that he's taken a big gamble, because the laws and guidelines by which he's supposed to make that decision do not support what he did.
Agree - if ever a ref is under instruction to err on the side of caution it's here. The benefit from allowing play to continue is far outweighed by the cost of delaying treatment for a player who could need medical attention.
The fact he stopped play when Ajer went down uninjured in the first half when we were still attacking and had an advantage makes it even more annoying.

That will be another judgement call that by the exact letter of the law may be justified away though.
Edited by Adam Smith 11, 26 Feb 2018, 03:52 PM.
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Wailer
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CelticMad123
26 Feb 2018, 12:46 PM
BardseyCelt
26 Feb 2018, 12:43 PM
CelticMad123
26 Feb 2018, 12:41 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Look up. You'll see I have a clear position on perceived ref bias.

So you're saying that the ref doesn't know if it's serious or not, but the player is lying down holding his face after a head knock, and the correct decision was to go "he's probably alright". Pish.
Your not understanding the point.

The ref needs to make a judgement call. If the ball goe sinto the middle of the park he stops the game. To stop a clear 3v1 attack for a team that done nothing wrong in the injury when hes not sure the players seriously injured would have been silly. He lets play go on, the attack finishes quickly and he gets the player seen to.

If aberdeen passed the ball back rather than going forward when in the box the ref would hopefully have at that point stopped play due to the injury.
I've seen enough refs up here make judgement calls on stopping play due to an injured player, usually when we're on the attack and there's been times the game has been stopped when it's not a head injury but some carrot at it.

The same goes with the advantage rule, it may well be a FK to us but there's a man through on goal but we'll just pull it back for the foul as you had too much advantage there !

Madden was at it yesterday.
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Lubo67
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Just realised Madden was the ref when Stockley elbowed Tierney in the cup final. What a bastard of a man.
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