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Moussa Dembele
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Topic Started: 28 Jun 2016, 11:59 AM (860,269 Views)
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southern bhoy
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22 May 2018, 09:07 PM
Post #10081
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- Kingslim
- 22 May 2018, 09:04 PM
- Fly Pelican
- 22 May 2018, 07:58 PM
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- 22 May 2018, 07:51 PM
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It was Dembele I was referring to primarily. It is quite likely we would receive an attractive bid from a team he doesn't fancy. Tierney still falls into the 'would have to be right for all parties' bracket.
That’s a bit different then given his situation I’d be happy to get another 2 seasons out of him, then he can walk for free. 4 years is a good commitment. He may extend with an agreement he can go. I do think Ntcham and Edouard being here with him, may encourageme him to stay a bit longer. I hope so There is no way that we will allow him to run down his contract. We have not had a top class player do that in years.
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janvoh
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22 May 2018, 09:13 PM
Post #10082
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I’ve got a feeling moussas agent will convince him to run contract down
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justinjest
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22 May 2018, 09:15 PM
Post #10083
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- janvoh
- 22 May 2018, 09:13 PM
I’ve got a feeling moussas agent will convince him to run contract down I imagine that might be the case as well, however, after Saturday's display and previous displays in the big games, I'll be happy if he sees out his contract - if his play gets us into the CL group stages, then we'll have made our money on him.
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idyllwild
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22 May 2018, 09:15 PM
Post #10084
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- 22 May 2018, 08:50 PM
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- 22 May 2018, 08:47 PM
- ronny_is_not_da_man
- 22 May 2018, 07:47 PM
People really aren't paying attention. Our whole model is buy raw talent, develop and sell for as much as we can get.
Moussa will be sold. There's not a hope in hell he will be allowed to run down his contract and rightly so.
How much attention are you paying? Where do Hayes, Compper, Roberts and Edouard (current loan agreement) fit into that model? If we were prepared to have Roberts and Musonda for 2 and 1/2 years and 1 and 1/2 years with no chance of making a profit on them then why wouldn’t we be prepared to have Dembele for 4 years and not make a profit on him?
Because Dembele is ours, we got him for 500k and we could probably make £30m whilst sending him on a path to greatness? Dembele is leaving. It might not be this summer but when he does it wont be for free. We aren't stupid. It’s nothing to do with stupidity. The decision is a trade off between the profit we make from a sale and the profit we’re likely to make from him staying, ie CL money that we wouldn’t otherwise get.
I think he’ll go, but it’ll be when it suits both parties. On Celtic’s part, it’ll be because he isn’t indispensable.
If it was just about us making a profit, he’d have been gone last summer.
No matter how often people say it, Celtic’s current business model is not to buy low, sell high. Our business model is to qualify for the CL, and if we don’t do it, then have a player who can be sold to minimise the loss.
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McStay
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22 May 2018, 09:20 PM
Post #10085
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Because Dembele is ours, we got him for 500k and we could probably make £30m whilst sending him on a path to greatness? Dembele is leaving. It might not be this summer but when he does it wont be for free. We aren't stupid.
It’s nothing to do with stupidity. The decision is a trade off between the profit we make from a sale and the profit we’re likely to make from him staying, ie CL money that we wouldn’t otherwise get. There's always the possibility we could sell him and still qualify for the CL and make huge profits. We didn't have him for the qualifiers this year after all.
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Stephane_Mahe
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22 May 2018, 09:21 PM
Post #10086
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- 22 May 2018, 07:47 PM
People really aren't paying attention. Our whole model is buy raw talent, develop and sell for as much as we can get.
Moussa will be sold. There's not a hope in hell he will be allowed to run down his contract and rightly so.
How much attention are you paying? Where do Hayes, Compper, Roberts and Edouard (current loan agreement) fit into that model? If we were prepared to have Roberts and Musonda for 2 and 1/2 years and 1 and 1/2 years with no chance of making a profit on them then why wouldn’t we be prepared to have Dembele for 4 years and not make a profit on him?
Because Dembele is ours, we got him for 500k and we could probably make £30m whilst sending him on a path to greatness? Dembele is leaving. It might not be this summer but when he does it wont be for free. We aren't stupid. but loan signings or not, Roberts and Musonda (and Hayes and MC to a lesser extent) are proof that we are prepared to pay fees and significant wages for players over an extended period without making a profit on them.
If we are prepared to “take a hit” on Roberts over 2 and 1/2 years then there’s every chance we’d be ready to do the same with Dembele over 4 years. In practice, it’s not any different from taking him on a 4 year loan - if we could get Roberts on another year loan this summer we’d all be delighted.
It’s also not necessarily true that selling Dembele is the best financial move if it’s jeopardises our chances of CL qualification.
Anyway, all that aside, buying players to sell on for a big profit obviously isn’t our whole model.
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idyllwild
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22 May 2018, 09:26 PM
Post #10087
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It’s nothing to do with stupidity. The decision is a trade off between the profit we make from a sale and the profit we’re likely to make from him staying, ie CL money that we wouldn’t otherwise get.
There's always the possibility we could sell him and still qualify for the CL and make huge profits. We didn't have him for the qualifiers this year after all. Yes. That’s one of the two options. That’s the trade off. Do we make £30m from the CL irrespective of Dembele. If so, then it makes sense to take the profit. If he’s the difference between £5m and £30m or even £30m and last 16 money, then we keep him.
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harryhoodshatrick
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22 May 2018, 10:24 PM
Post #10088
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- justinjest
- 22 May 2018, 09:15 PM
- janvoh
- 22 May 2018, 09:13 PM
I’ve got a feeling moussas agent will convince him to run contract down
I imagine that might be the case as well, however, after Saturday's display and previous displays in the big games, I'll be happy if he sees out his contract - if his play gets us into the CL group stages, then we'll have made our money on him. I would love him to stay but if he doesn’t sign a new contract then we won’t and shouldn’t let him stay and run down his contract.I can understand the point your making but if his heart isn’t 100% in it then it’s likely he won’t be on his best form.
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Ste
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22 May 2018, 11:26 PM
Post #10089
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- idyllwild
- 22 May 2018, 09:15 PM
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- 22 May 2018, 08:50 PM
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- 22 May 2018, 08:47 PM
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Because Dembele is ours, we got him for 500k and we could probably make £30m whilst sending him on a path to greatness? Dembele is leaving. It might not be this summer but when he does it wont be for free. We aren't stupid.
It’s nothing to do with stupidity. The decision is a trade off between the profit we make from a sale and the profit we’re likely to make from him staying, ie CL money that we wouldn’t otherwise get. I think he’ll go, but it’ll be when it suits both parties. On Celtic’s part, it’ll be because he isn’t indispensable. If it was just about us making a profit, he’d have been gone last summer. No matter how often people say it, Celtic’s current business model is not to buy low, sell high. Our business model is to qualify for the CL, and if we don’t do it, then have a player who can be sold to minimise the loss. A business model and a transfer strategy are two different things. Celtics transfer strategy certainly includes buy low sell high on certain players.
Dembele will have the final say in when he leaves - assuming a decent enough offer comes in. Regardless of the Champions League we will 100% accept a bid of £30m for Dembele. Celtic won't stand in his way either if he wants to go. We need to think of the bigger picture here.
@Stephane Mahe
Just because we are willing to pay money for Sinclair, Hayes etc doesn't mean that we won't entertain the idea of selling players for large profits. Our model from what I can see is to bring in younger players with potential who didn't make the grade at the elite clubs on the cheap with a decent/high wage - develop them - and sell them.
With Roberts and Musonda we went for the loan option because their parent club wouldn't sell to us. I'm guessing the idea was maybe in 18 months we can pick up a bargain or at least we get 18-30 months out of them with little financial outlay. Build good relationships and show that we can be a proving ground for the youth players of City, Chelsea etc to take their game to the next level.
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idyllwild
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23 May 2018, 08:59 AM
Post #10090
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It’s nothing to do with stupidity. The decision is a trade off between the profit we make from a sale and the profit we’re likely to make from him staying, ie CL money that we wouldn’t otherwise get. I think he’ll go, but it’ll be when it suits both parties. On Celtic’s part, it’ll be because he isn’t indispensable. If it was just about us making a profit, he’d have been gone last summer. No matter how often people say it, Celtic’s current business model is not to buy low, sell high. Our business model is to qualify for the CL, and if we don’t do it, then have a player who can be sold to minimise the loss.
A business model and a transfer strategy are two different things. Celtics transfer strategy certainly includes buy low sell high on certain players. Dembele will have the final say in when he leaves - assuming a decent enough offer comes in. Regardless of the Champions League we will 100% accept a bid of £30m for Dembele. Celtic won't stand in his way either if he wants to go. We need to think of the bigger picture here. @Stephane Mahe Just because we are willing to pay money for Sinclair, Hayes etc doesn't mean that we won't entertain the idea of selling players for large profits. Our model from what I can see is to bring in younger players with potential who didn't make the grade at the elite clubs on the cheap with a decent/high wage - develop them - and sell them. With Roberts and Musonda we went for the loan option because their parent club wouldn't sell to us. I'm guessing the idea was maybe in 18 months we can pick up a bargain or at least we get 18-30 months out of them with little financial outlay. Build good relationships and show that we can be a proving ground for the youth players of City, Chelsea etc to take their game to the next level. No-one has said we wouldn’t “entertain bids”. What I said was that our whole business model isn’t buy low/sell high, as per the post tonwhich I originally replied.
If you’re going to be pedantic about terminology, pick up the guy who posted it originally. And then don’t use “model” yourself when discussing transfer strategy.
As you’ve seemed to grasp with the mention of Sinclair, Roberts etc, we don’t actually have a single model/strategy/whatever. Our last four signings have been Bain, Musonda, Compper and Hendry.
For someone who rates Dembele so highly, do you not think he could be the difference that brings qualification or a last 16 in the CL, or a run in the EL? That’s the trade off that the club will consider, not just the net profit on a deal. There are loads of other variables too, and it also isn’t just one party’s decision to make.
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Stephane_Mahe
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23 May 2018, 09:06 AM
Post #10091
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It’s nothing to do with stupidity. The decision is a trade off between the profit we make from a sale and the profit we’re likely to make from him staying, ie CL money that we wouldn’t otherwise get. I think he’ll go, but it’ll be when it suits both parties. On Celtic’s part, it’ll be because he isn’t indispensable. If it was just about us making a profit, he’d have been gone last summer. No matter how often people say it, Celtic’s current business model is not to buy low, sell high. Our business model is to qualify for the CL, and if we don’t do it, then have a player who can be sold to minimise the loss.
A business model and a transfer strategy are two different things. Celtics transfer strategy certainly includes buy low sell high on certain players. Dembele will have the final say in when he leaves - assuming a decent enough offer comes in. Regardless of the Champions League we will 100% accept a bid of £30m for Dembele. Celtic won't stand in his way either if he wants to go. We need to think of the bigger picture here. @Stephane Mahe Just because we are willing to pay money for Sinclair, Hayes etc doesn't mean that we won't entertain the idea of selling players for large profits. Our model from what I can see is to bring in younger players with potential who didn't make the grade at the elite clubs on the cheap with a decent/high wage - develop them - and sell them. With Roberts and Musonda we went for the loan option because their parent club wouldn't sell to us. I'm guessing the idea was maybe in 18 months we can pick up a bargain or at least we get 18-30 months out of them with little financial outlay. Build good relationships and show that we can be a proving ground for the youth players of City, Chelsea etc to take their game to the next level. Jeezo man.
I didn’t say that buying young players to sell for a high fee isn’t part of our model (or strategy or plan or whatever you want to call it). It’s just obviously not our whole model, which was the original claim I responded to.
If we get £25m+ for Dembele I think we probably would sell but for the two reasons I posted earlier (selling players isn’t our whole model and through CL qualification we might make more money from keeping him) I think it’s not 100% definite.
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Mackin
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23 May 2018, 10:56 AM
Post #10092
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- Ste
- 22 May 2018, 11:26 PM
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It’s nothing to do with stupidity. The decision is a trade off between the profit we make from a sale and the profit we’re likely to make from him staying, ie CL money that we wouldn’t otherwise get. I think he’ll go, but it’ll be when it suits both parties. On Celtic’s part, it’ll be because he isn’t indispensable. If it was just about us making a profit, he’d have been gone last summer. No matter how often people say it, Celtic’s current business model is not to buy low, sell high. Our business model is to qualify for the CL, and if we don’t do it, then have a player who can be sold to minimise the loss.
A business model and a transfer strategy are two different things. Celtics transfer strategy certainly includes buy low sell high on certain players. Dembele will have the final say in when he leaves - assuming a decent enough offer comes in. Regardless of the Champions League we will 100% accept a bid of £30m for Dembele. Celtic won't stand in his way either if he wants to go. We need to think of the bigger picture here. @Stephane Mahe Just because we are willing to pay money for Sinclair, Hayes etc doesn't mean that we won't entertain the idea of selling players for large profits. Our model from what I can see is to bring in younger players with potential who didn't make the grade at the elite clubs on the cheap with a decent/high wage - develop them - and sell them. With Roberts and Musonda we went for the loan option because their parent club wouldn't sell to us. I'm guessing the idea was maybe in 18 months we can pick up a bargain or at least we get 18-30 months out of them with little financial outlay. Build good relationships and show that we can be a proving ground for the youth players of City, Chelsea etc to take their game to the next level. Pretty much what I said a few pages back. £30m bid or not, if its from effing Burnley he'll be going on a Bosman.
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Ste
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23 May 2018, 11:10 AM
Post #10093
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- idyllwild
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Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
A business model and a transfer strategy are two different things. Celtics transfer strategy certainly includes buy low sell high on certain players. Dembele will have the final say in when he leaves - assuming a decent enough offer comes in. Regardless of the Champions League we will 100% accept a bid of £30m for Dembele. Celtic won't stand in his way either if he wants to go. We need to think of the bigger picture here. @Stephane Mahe Just because we are willing to pay money for Sinclair, Hayes etc doesn't mean that we won't entertain the idea of selling players for large profits. Our model from what I can see is to bring in younger players with potential who didn't make the grade at the elite clubs on the cheap with a decent/high wage - develop them - and sell them. With Roberts and Musonda we went for the loan option because their parent club wouldn't sell to us. I'm guessing the idea was maybe in 18 months we can pick up a bargain or at least we get 18-30 months out of them with little financial outlay. Build good relationships and show that we can be a proving ground for the youth players of City, Chelsea etc to take their game to the next level.
No-one has said we wouldn’t “entertain bids”. What I said was that our whole business model isn’t buy low/sell high, as per the post tonwhich I originally replied. If you’re going to be pedantic about terminology, pick up the guy who posted it originally. And then don’t use “model” yourself when discussing transfer strategy. As you’ve seemed to grasp with the mention of Sinclair, Roberts etc, we don’t actually have a single model/strategy/whatever. Our last four signings have been Bain, Musonda, Compper and Hendry. For someone who rates Dembele so highly, do you not think he could be the difference that brings qualification or a last 16 in the CL, or a run in the EL? That’s the trade off that the club will consider, not just the net profit on a deal. There are loads of other variables too, and it also isn’t just one party’s decision to make. It wasn't the use of the word 'model' or 'strategy' that I was taking about.
There is no club in the world that has a singular transfer strategy and the overall strategy will always be complimented with players that are needed at the time to supplement the squad. This is fairly obvious. The young players we've brought in and the ones that we tried to bring in where done so with the view to making bank on them when the time was right.
Celtic are doing great work as a club who are bringing young players in and developing them. If we start to stand in their way when big moves come around it'll make people think twice about coming here. Thankfully Rodgers knows this.
Do you think if we got £30m for Dembele and reinvested £20m of it into the playing squad in buying Edouard for circa £5-6m and spending £14m on other areas would give us a better chance at qualifying for the last 16? I do.
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bigdavie
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23 May 2018, 11:34 AM
Post #10094
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I wouldn't have a problem with Moussa seeing out his contract as long as he can give his all when playing for us.
Different of course if he gets to his last year then decided to give up on us.
We are always crying out for better players, so I don't understand people who appear quite happy to sell the man.
We will win more and have a far better chance of qualifying for the CL groups with Moussa than without. And that should be the end.
Now if someone turns up with ridiculous offer for him then we would have to listen, but at the end of the day he will decide where and when he goes.
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Kingslim
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23 May 2018, 11:35 AM
Post #10095
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Hopefully, Henrik had a word in his ear on Sunday
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BardseyCelt
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23 May 2018, 11:54 AM
Post #10096
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- ronny_is_not_da_man
- 22 May 2018, 07:47 PM
People really aren't paying attention. Our whole model is buy raw talent, develop and sell for as much as we can get.
Moussa will be sold. There's not a hope in hell he will be allowed to run down his contract and rightly so. If Dembele stays and is the difference between qualifying for CL next two seasons then he's made us more money than any fee we would have got for him.
I believe he will be sold but there's a sound financial argument for keeping him, too.
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Terry Munro
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23 May 2018, 12:02 PM
Post #10097
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Said a couple of times that Dembele will go this season (and took a bit of stick for saying so). Delighted to be wrong if he does stay. Barring a knockout offer, I think he will stay for next season, but would be uncomfortable him running down his contract and we end up with nothing for him. Tie him down on a long term contract and everyone's a winner.
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TimsdaleBhoy
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23 May 2018, 12:09 PM
Post #10098
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Think he loves it up here. Wouldn't be surprised if he stayed for the 10, would actually be more of a surprise to me if he left before hand.
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idyllwild
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23 May 2018, 12:13 PM
Post #10099
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No-one has said we wouldn’t “entertain bids”. What I said was that our whole business model isn’t buy low/sell high, as per the post tonwhich I originally replied. If you’re going to be pedantic about terminology, pick up the guy who posted it originally. And then don’t use “model” yourself when discussing transfer strategy. As you’ve seemed to grasp with the mention of Sinclair, Roberts etc, we don’t actually have a single model/strategy/whatever. Our last four signings have been Bain, Musonda, Compper and Hendry. For someone who rates Dembele so highly, do you not think he could be the difference that brings qualification or a last 16 in the CL, or a run in the EL? That’s the trade off that the club will consider, not just the net profit on a deal. There are loads of other variables too, and it also isn’t just one party’s decision to make.
It wasn't the use of the word 'model' or 'strategy' that I was taking about. There is no club in the world that has a singular transfer strategy and the overall strategy will always be complimented with players that are needed at the time to supplement the squad. This is fairly obvious. The young players we've brought in and the ones that we tried to bring in where done so with the view to making bank on them when the time was right. Celtic are doing great work as a club who are bringing young players in and developing them. If we start to stand in their way when big moves come around it'll make people think twice about coming here. Thankfully Rodgers knows this. Do you think if we got £30m for Dembele and reinvested £20m of it into the playing squad in buying Edouard for circa £5-6m and spending £14m on other areas would give us a better chance at qualifying for the last 16? I do. Not sure. My point is/was that in that situation, the club will consider both options. It isn’t all about buy low/sell high. The comment that started this off was that this is our “whole model” when it patently isn’t.
What I will say on Dembele is that he might not be the sole difference between 3rd/4th place and last 16, but we are less likely to get to that level if we sell these guys at the first opportunity.
If there’s one thing our whole best-case strategy is dependent on, its qualification for the CL. If we do that every year, we don’t have any financial pressure to sell Wanyama, VvD, Forster, Dembele. Furthermore, decent showings in the CL and improved contracts would make these guys more likely to hang around.
Dembele has shown he’s good enough in Europe that I’d be comfortable with him seeing out his contract. It’s a gamble, but so would any replacement. And I’d rather take the gamble off the pitch than on it.
All hypothetical of course, I think he’ll go at the end of the window.
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TimsdaleBhoy
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23 May 2018, 01:47 PM
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- 22 May 2018, 11:26 PM
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No-one has said we wouldn’t “entertain bids”. What I said was that our whole business model isn’t buy low/sell high, as per the post tonwhich I originally replied. If you’re going to be pedantic about terminology, pick up the guy who posted it originally. And then don’t use “model” yourself when discussing transfer strategy. As you’ve seemed to grasp with the mention of Sinclair, Roberts etc, we don’t actually have a single model/strategy/whatever. Our last four signings have been Bain, Musonda, Compper and Hendry. For someone who rates Dembele so highly, do you not think he could be the difference that brings qualification or a last 16 in the CL, or a run in the EL? That’s the trade off that the club will consider, not just the net profit on a deal. There are loads of other variables too, and it also isn’t just one party’s decision to make.
It wasn't the use of the word 'model' or 'strategy' that I was taking about. There is no club in the world that has a singular transfer strategy and the overall strategy will always be complimented with players that are needed at the time to supplement the squad. This is fairly obvious. The young players we've brought in and the ones that we tried to bring in where done so with the view to making bank on them when the time was right. Celtic are doing great work as a club who are bringing young players in and developing them. If we start to stand in their way when big moves come around it'll make people think twice about coming here. Thankfully Rodgers knows this. Do you think if we got £30m for Dembele and reinvested £20m of it into the playing squad in buying Edouard for circa £5-6m and spending £14m on other areas would give us a better chance at qualifying for the last 16? I do. Not sure the club would ever stand in the way of a big move for a player if it was as you say a 'big move' but in reality has any Celtic player in the last 10/15 year been subject to a 'big move?' with the exception of Larsson who went on a free, and at a push Islam Feruz Yer Norwich, Southampton & Brighton's shouldn't be classed as a 'big move' for me.
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