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Moussa Dembele
Topic Started: 28 Jun 2016, 11:59 AM (860,313 Views)
allthewine
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ronny_is_not_da_man
23 Feb 2018, 10:06 AM
allthewine
23 Feb 2018, 09:58 AM
alan_partridge
23 Feb 2018, 09:51 AM
If Griffiths played like Dembele did last night folk would be using it as evidence that Griffiths isn't good enough to play in Europe. Dembele was honking last night, looked disinterested and doesn't look like scoring (at any level). I expect more from a player who is apparently worth £20 million plus.

When Griffiths is fit I'd start him ahead of Dembele from now on.
Utter nonsense.
It's far from it and you know fine well LG would be being slaughtered if he put the level of performances MD has put in at times this season.

It's utter nonsense to suggest otherwise when it would take you 5 minutes to go into the LG thread and see the number of he isn't good enough comments :ffs:

When both are on form MD is a far better player. Anyone saying otherwise is porky pieing. When he is off form then Griffiths should always start as he is more likely to get you a goal.
It is complete pish to say, Moussa was honking and not interested.
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Covcelt
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Ste
23 Feb 2018, 10:10 AM
Midfield Maestro
22 Feb 2018, 11:44 PM
Ste
22 Feb 2018, 10:14 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Why do you hate Leigh Griffiths?
I don't hate him. I just don't rate him anywhere near as much as certain sections of our support do.

The general idea from sections of our support from last night seems to be that Dembele is lazy, slow and doesn't create enough chances for himself.

A) He covered more ground than Griffiths did in the CL group stages this year
B) He reached a higher top speed than Griffiths did in the CL group stages this year
C) He had double the amount of attempts at goal than Griffiths did in the CL group stages this year

So again - can someone tell me what exactly it is Griffiths brings to the team that would have made a difference with that midfield playing the way they did behind him?

I'm not having a go at Griffiths here BTW. I'm just saying that this type of game does not suit Griffiths at all. He is 100x better when we are on the front foot and forcing the game. If we aren't doing that he might as well have stayed in Edinburgh.

I think people watch games expecting the same every time. Dembele's role last night and his role vs Aberdeen at the weekend are considerably different. Just because he isn't scoring goals doesn't mean he isn't having a good game. I think he done what was asked of him from the manager and that's why he was singled out for praise after the game.
So your saying Griffiths had half the amount of attempts at goal in the group stages but scored the same amount
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Ste
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Covcelt
23 Feb 2018, 10:22 AM
Ste
23 Feb 2018, 10:10 AM
Midfield Maestro
22 Feb 2018, 11:44 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
I don't hate him. I just don't rate him anywhere near as much as certain sections of our support do.

The general idea from sections of our support from last night seems to be that Dembele is lazy, slow and doesn't create enough chances for himself.

A) He covered more ground than Griffiths did in the CL group stages this year
B) He reached a higher top speed than Griffiths did in the CL group stages this year
C) He had double the amount of attempts at goal than Griffiths did in the CL group stages this year

So again - can someone tell me what exactly it is Griffiths brings to the team that would have made a difference with that midfield playing the way they did behind him?

I'm not having a go at Griffiths here BTW. I'm just saying that this type of game does not suit Griffiths at all. He is 100x better when we are on the front foot and forcing the game. If we aren't doing that he might as well have stayed in Edinburgh.

I think people watch games expecting the same every time. Dembele's role last night and his role vs Aberdeen at the weekend are considerably different. Just because he isn't scoring goals doesn't mean he isn't having a good game. I think he done what was asked of him from the manager and that's why he was singled out for praise after the game.
So your saying Griffiths had half the amount of attempts at goal in the group stages but scored the same amount
Aye, that's exactly what my whole post says.

If Griffiths missed the chance he scored Nakasboots would have been on here telling us how it was brilliant that he got himself into the position and that Tierney's cross had too much pace on it.

The point I'm making is that Dembele is better than Griffiths at the top level and every bit of proof whether statistical or with two working eyes shows that.
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IainG
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Ah but I was so much older then,I'm younger than that now
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In all this are we not forgetting the age Dembele is? He is yet to mature as a person and a player and has undoubtedly huge potential. Any club paying megabucks for him is buying that potential. Not every young striker is a prodigy like Kylian Mbappe. If he progresses the way he should then he will be on a different planet to Leigh Griffiths......if.
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mick405
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allthewine
23 Feb 2018, 09:58 AM
alan_partridge
23 Feb 2018, 09:51 AM
If Griffiths played like Dembele did last night folk would be using it as evidence that Griffiths isn't good enough to play in Europe. Dembele was honking last night, looked disinterested and doesn't look like scoring (at any level). I expect more from a player who is apparently worth £20 million plus.

When Griffiths is fit I'd start him ahead of Dembele from now on.
Utter nonsense.
It really isn't.
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james95
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I thought he did ok last night given the service he had.
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Country Mac
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Ste
23 Feb 2018, 10:10 AM
Midfield Maestro
22 Feb 2018, 11:44 PM
Ste
22 Feb 2018, 10:14 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Why do you hate Leigh Griffiths?
I don't hate him. I just don't rate him anywhere near as much as certain sections of our support do.

The general idea from sections of our support from last night seems to be that Dembele is lazy, slow and doesn't create enough chances for himself.

A) He covered more ground than Griffiths did in the CL group stages this year
B) He reached a higher top speed than Griffiths did in the CL group stages this year
C) He had double the amount of attempts at goal than Griffiths did in the CL group stages this year

So again - can someone tell me what exactly it is Griffiths brings to the team that would have made a difference with that midfield playing the way they did behind him?

I'm not having a go at Griffiths here BTW. I'm just saying that this type of game does not suit Griffiths at all. He is 100x better when we are on the front foot and forcing the game. If we aren't doing that he might as well have stayed in Edinburgh.

I think people watch games expecting the same every time. Dembele's role last night and his role vs Aberdeen at the weekend are considerably different. Just because he isn't scoring goals doesn't mean he isn't having a good game. I think he done what was asked of him from the manager and that's why he was singled out for praise after the game.
Can I ask where you're seeing the stats re. ground covered? Genuinely not doubting you, would be interesting to see how our other players have done in this regard too.
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Ste
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Country Mac
23 Feb 2018, 10:58 AM
Ste
23 Feb 2018, 10:10 AM
Midfield Maestro
22 Feb 2018, 11:44 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
I don't hate him. I just don't rate him anywhere near as much as certain sections of our support do.

The general idea from sections of our support from last night seems to be that Dembele is lazy, slow and doesn't create enough chances for himself.

A) He covered more ground than Griffiths did in the CL group stages this year
B) He reached a higher top speed than Griffiths did in the CL group stages this year
C) He had double the amount of attempts at goal than Griffiths did in the CL group stages this year

So again - can someone tell me what exactly it is Griffiths brings to the team that would have made a difference with that midfield playing the way they did behind him?

I'm not having a go at Griffiths here BTW. I'm just saying that this type of game does not suit Griffiths at all. He is 100x better when we are on the front foot and forcing the game. If we aren't doing that he might as well have stayed in Edinburgh.

I think people watch games expecting the same every time. Dembele's role last night and his role vs Aberdeen at the weekend are considerably different. Just because he isn't scoring goals doesn't mean he isn't having a good game. I think he done what was asked of him from the manager and that's why he was singled out for praise after the game.
Can I ask where you're seeing the stats re. ground covered? Genuinely not doubting you, would be interesting to see how our other players have done in this regard too.
Someone posted a screen-grab on twitter of it a few weeks back. I'll have a look for it. It was a UEFA style graphic though.
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IainG
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Ah but I was so much older then,I'm younger than that now
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james95
23 Feb 2018, 10:54 AM
I thought he did ok last night given the service he had.
A striker's main purpose is to score goals. On the face of it he's not doing that but in order to score goals a striker needs to be given opportunities. He's not being given them just now. He can run about all he wants seeking space etc but without others behind him showing creativity he's on a hiding to nothing.
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weeShughie
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I'm still not convinced that Dembele is fully fit.
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Ste
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Ste
23 Feb 2018, 10:59 AM
Country Mac
23 Feb 2018, 10:58 AM
Ste
23 Feb 2018, 10:10 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Can I ask where you're seeing the stats re. ground covered? Genuinely not doubting you, would be interesting to see how our other players have done in this regard too.
Someone posted a screen-grab on twitter of it a few weeks back. I'll have a look for it. It was a UEFA style graphic though.
Found a link

https://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/season=2018/statistics/round=2000881/players/index.html

This shows he's actually played 18 more minutes (image I seen only had the distances) but covered over a thousand meters more and played vs Anderlecht with an injury. The difference isn't enough to call someone lazy whilst saying the other constantly harasses defenders. Both of them do the exact same in harassing defenders and putting them under pressure.

The lazy comments are just that... lazy.
Edited by Ste, 23 Feb 2018, 11:09 AM.
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Mackin
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Thought the service to him was pretty effing dreadful last night, but when he did get the ball it just bounced off him. Not even half as good as he was last week.
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Bryan67
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IainG
23 Feb 2018, 10:59 AM
james95
23 Feb 2018, 10:54 AM
I thought he did ok last night given the service he had.
A striker's main purpose is to score goals. On the face of it he's not doing that but in order to score goals a striker needs to be given opportunities. He's not being given them just now. He can run about all he wants seeking space etc but without others behind him showing creativity he's on a hiding to nothing.
:thumbsup:
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Flinchy
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IainG
23 Feb 2018, 10:59 AM
james95
23 Feb 2018, 10:54 AM
I thought he did ok last night given the service he had.
A striker's main purpose is to score goals. On the face of it he's not doing that but in order to score goals a striker needs to be given opportunities. He's not being given them just now. He can run about all he wants seeking space etc but without others behind him showing creativity he's on a hiding to nothing.
We're not moving the ball well or quickly enough to make the space he needs. Teams are closing us down quickly and putting two men on our creative players at a time. They know we do eff all with the ball in our own half, then close us down when we get into their half. We are far too slow doing anything, so we're not making the same chances for our strikers that we would have last season. We're too dithery.
Edited by Flinchy, 23 Feb 2018, 12:21 PM.
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Country Mac
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Ste
23 Feb 2018, 11:09 AM
Ste
23 Feb 2018, 10:59 AM
Country Mac
23 Feb 2018, 10:58 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Someone posted a screen-grab on twitter of it a few weeks back. I'll have a look for it. It was a UEFA style graphic though.
Found a link

https://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/season=2018/statistics/round=2000881/players/index.html

This shows he's actually played 18 more minutes (image I seen only had the distances) but covered over a thousand meters more and played vs Anderlecht with an injury. The difference isn't enough to call someone lazy whilst saying the other constantly harasses defenders. Both of them do the exact same in harassing defenders and putting them under pressure.

The lazy comments are just that... lazy.
Fair do's. I think many (myself included) sometimes hold Dembele to a different standard due to the hype that surrounds him. More importantly, since day one the talk has been about moving him onto bigger things. I believe he is our joint-highest paid player as well. In this day and age of corporate football, it's hard not to be a bit cynical when you see his performance levels often directly correspond to the exposure of any given fixture.

What irritates me is that we know he can turn in a performance like he did last week, where he created a hell of a lot for himself and others, then look insipid like he did last night. He's far from alone in that regard. Also at the risk of sounding like I'm moving the goal posts, the majority of criticism surrounding his application has followed his performances since the January window ended. The lack of goals in this period is worrying as well. But those numbers definitely shed more light on the comparison between the two. Cheers for the link.

For what it's worth, I'd still like to see two up top given a proper chance. We've been poor going forward for long enough now to justify trying something new.


As an aside, not surprised at all to see Brown has topped that list comfortably.
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fatboab
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he was marked out the game last night. Zenit actually learned from the first game. They simply stopped the ball getting anywhere near Dembele.
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fatboab
23 Feb 2018, 12:47 PM
he was marked out the game last night. Zenit actually learned from the first game. They simply stopped the ball getting anywhere near Dembele.
Zenit learned a lot from the first game and took it all on board.
We didn't we shat it!!!
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littlegmbhoy
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allthewine
23 Feb 2018, 10:19 AM
ronny_is_not_da_man
23 Feb 2018, 10:06 AM
allthewine
23 Feb 2018, 09:58 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
It's far from it and you know fine well LG would be being slaughtered if he put the level of performances MD has put in at times this season.

It's utter nonsense to suggest otherwise when it would take you 5 minutes to go into the LG thread and see the number of he isn't good enough comments :ffs:

When both are on form MD is a far better player. Anyone saying otherwise is porky pieing. When he is off form then Griffiths should always start as he is more likely to get you a goal.
It is complete pish to say, Moussa was honking and not interested.
Mate genuine qusetion(s)..

Do you think Moussa has had a good season?
If not then what are your thoughts on why he has regressed from last year?

Im a fan of him and LG but Moussa genreally speaking this year has been chronic....anytime I come into this thread you always seem never to call it how it is..that he has been very poor this year so genuinely intrerested on how you see him so far this season?
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allthewine
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littlegmbhoy
23 Feb 2018, 01:15 PM
allthewine
23 Feb 2018, 10:19 AM
ronny_is_not_da_man
23 Feb 2018, 10:06 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
It is complete pish to say, Moussa was honking and not interested.
Mate genuine qusetion(s)..

Do you think Moussa has had a good season?
If not then what are your thoughts on why he has regressed from last year?

Im a fan of him and LG but Moussa genreally speaking this year has been chronic....anytime I come into this thread you always seem never to call it how it is..that he has been very poor this year so genuinely intrerested on how you see him so far this season?
Mate, I have said plenty of times when Moussa has been awful. Killie etc.

And no he has not had a good season. He has been poor.

Last night though he was one of our better performers. He had very little to work with.
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baldecrunch
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mick405
23 Feb 2018, 10:52 AM
allthewine
23 Feb 2018, 09:58 AM
alan_partridge
23 Feb 2018, 09:51 AM
If Griffiths played like Dembele did last night folk would be using it as evidence that Griffiths isn't good enough to play in Europe. Dembele was honking last night, looked disinterested and doesn't look like scoring (at any level). I expect more from a player who is apparently worth £20 million plus.

When Griffiths is fit I'd start him ahead of Dembele from now on.
Utter nonsense.
It really isn't.
It really is - Id have Dembele down as one of best players last night - His hold up play when the Zenit players were on top of him was immense - He just didnt have any support.
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