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Moussa Dembele
Topic Started: 28 Jun 2016, 11:59 AM (860,540 Views)
Wailer
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Midfield Maestro
31 Jan 2017, 02:42 AM
Sheshoon
31 Jan 2017, 02:12 AM
Midfield Maestro
31 Jan 2017, 01:40 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Whether Dembele went now, summer or end of next season, wouldn't diminish this nurturing reputation, but explain to me the football logic from a Champions League qualifier perspective this year, in offloading Dembele in this window, when there's no financial necessity.....and assuming Dembele will progress and mature under Brendan his value is only likely to increase, particularly with another productive CL campaign under his belt.
It's the "his value is likely to increase" part which is the main risk. There's no guarantee of that at all. If the price being quoted is correct, I really can't see that going up by much but it could go down by a lot if, for instance, Moussa gets a bad injury.
It's a gamble we should take IMO. You don't think a successful CL campaign would increase his value much? Surely it would.
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Midfield Maestro
31 Jan 2017, 02:42 AM
Sheshoon
31 Jan 2017, 02:12 AM
Midfield Maestro
31 Jan 2017, 01:40 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Whether Dembele went now, summer or end of next season, wouldn't diminish this nurturing reputation, but explain to me the football logic from a Champions League qualifier perspective this year, in offloading Dembele in this window, when there's no financial necessity.....and assuming Dembele will progress and mature under Brendan his value is only likely to increase, particularly with another productive CL campaign under his belt.
It's the "his value is likely to increase" part which is the main risk. There's no guarantee of that at all. If the price being quoted is correct, I really can't see that going up by much but it could go down by a lot if, for instance, Moussa gets a bad injury.
You still didn't answer the question - what's the football logic from a Champions League qualifier perspective this year, in offloading Dembele in this window, when there's no financial necessity?
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Hagi Bhoy
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If Dembele helps us get to the CL next season he'll make €20-30m plus his transfer fee.

If we sold him now and didn't make the CL we'd be back to square one searching for a very rare type of striker.
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Hagi Bhoy
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The other thing to remember is the amount of money flying around the EPL.

If a team like Wolves can spend around £10m on championship shampooe then Chelsea can afford to put heir money where their mouth is for one of europes top talents.

£30m seems to me to be too low a price with every day that passes in the transfer window. £40m should seal the deal with add ons. For example loaned back for 18 months.
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aiden67
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Hagi Bhoy
31 Jan 2017, 06:53 AM
The other thing to remember is the amount of money flying around the EPL.

If a team like Wolves can spend around £10m on championship shampooe then Chelsea can afford to put heir money where their mouth is for one of europes top talents.

£30m seems to me to be too low a price with every day that passes in the transfer window. £40m should seal the deal with add ons. For example loaned back for 18 months.
:lol:
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Adam Smith 11
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Sheshoon
31 Jan 2017, 03:01 AM
Midfield Maestro
31 Jan 2017, 02:42 AM
Sheshoon
31 Jan 2017, 02:12 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
It's the "his value is likely to increase" part which is the main risk. There's no guarantee of that at all. If the price being quoted is correct, I really can't see that going up by much but it could go down by a lot if, for instance, Moussa gets a bad injury.
You still didn't answer the question - what's the football logic from a Champions League qualifier perspective this year, in offloading Dembele in this window, when there's no financial necessity?
What if Dembele wants to take the deal? I would be surprised if he doesn't, so should we stand in his way?

If we are seen to stand in his way when offered a ridiculous profit in such a short period, while he has been nothing but professional, then that will be something other young players and agents will take into account when making decisions about whether or not to come to us.

The golden goose in my eyes is not Dembele, it is the ability to attract young players on the up who give us their all for a few seasons and make us money to reinvest in the team. Getting greedy with Dembele may kill this golden goose.

If this money is well invested in another young player or two and another Sinclair type finished article then we could be even stronger than we are now. Who knows we may one day build a critical mass that stops us being a stepping stone, in the meantime though denying the reality of where we are and the connected reality that players hold so much power, we have to play the game in its terms not the terms we wish it were.

There are ifs and buts on both sides of the debate but given where we are as a club we have to be realistic about our current position and employ a strategy that suits until the environment we live in changes.

The big big risk for me is that we stand in his way and he goes in a huff over the next 5 months, this dramatically reduces his value and leaves us with limited striking options for the Cl. Add on to this other players and agents noting that Celtic don't play the game that they want then to me on balance the risks of not selling outweigh the benefits of not selling.








Edited by Adam Smith 11, 31 Jan 2017, 08:02 AM.
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TheEvilGenius
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I really hope we hold onto him till the summer at least. But I won't be surprised if we do allow him to leave for that sort of money
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Adam Smith 11
31 Jan 2017, 07:55 AM
Sheshoon
31 Jan 2017, 03:01 AM
Midfield Maestro
31 Jan 2017, 02:42 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
You still didn't answer the question - what's the football logic from a Champions League qualifier perspective this year, in offloading Dembele in this window, when there's no financial necessity?
What if Dembele wants to take the deal? I would be surprised if he doesn't, so should we stand in his way?

If we are seen to stand in his way when offered a ridiculous profit in such a short period, while he has been nothing but professional, then that will be something other young players and agents will take into account when making decisions about whether or not to come to us.

The golden goose in my eyes is not Dembele, it is the ability to attract young players on the up who give us their all for a few seasons and make us money to reinvest in the team. Getting greedy with Dembele may kill this golden goose.

If this money is well invested in another young player or two and another Sinclair type finished article then we could be even stronger than we are now. Who knows we may one day build a critical mass that stops us being a stepping stone, in the meantime though denying the reality of where we are and the connected reality that players hold so much power, we have to play the game in its terms not the terms we wish it were.

There are ifs and buts on both sides of the debate but given where we are as a club we have to be realistic about our current position and employ a strategy that suits until the environment we live in changes.

The big big risk for me is that we stand in his way and he goes in a huff over the next 5 months, this dramatically reduces his value and leaves us with limited striking options for the Cl. Add on to this other players and agents noting that Celtic don't play the game that they want then to me on balance the risks of not selling outweigh the benefits of not selling.








What if he doesn't want to go right now and wants to progress as a player a bit more 1st.

Getting greedy?... surely we should be fed up being shafted as we have been in the past and as recently as VvD.

We've already proven that if you're good enough at Celtic you will have the opportunity to move on and right now we're in the best position we've ever been to demand the going rate for what could be a French International striker.

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Adam Smith 11
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Wailer
31 Jan 2017, 08:11 AM
Adam Smith 11
31 Jan 2017, 07:55 AM
Sheshoon
31 Jan 2017, 03:01 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
What if Dembele wants to take the deal? I would be surprised if he doesn't, so should we stand in his way?

If we are seen to stand in his way when offered a ridiculous profit in such a short period, while he has been nothing but professional, then that will be something other young players and agents will take into account when making decisions about whether or not to come to us.

The golden goose in my eyes is not Dembele, it is the ability to attract young players on the up who give us their all for a few seasons and make us money to reinvest in the team. Getting greedy with Dembele may kill this golden goose.

If this money is well invested in another young player or two and another Sinclair type finished article then we could be even stronger than we are now. Who knows we may one day build a critical mass that stops us being a stepping stone, in the meantime though denying the reality of where we are and the connected reality that players hold so much power, we have to play the game in its terms not the terms we wish it were.

There are ifs and buts on both sides of the debate but given where we are as a club we have to be realistic about our current position and employ a strategy that suits until the environment we live in changes.

The big big risk for me is that we stand in his way and he goes in a huff over the next 5 months, this dramatically reduces his value and leaves us with limited striking options for the Cl. Add on to this other players and agents noting that Celtic don't play the game that they want then to me on balance the risks of not selling outweigh the benefits of not selling.








What if he doesn't want to go right now and wants to progress as a player a bit more 1st.

Getting greedy?... surely we should be fed up being shafted as we have been in the past and as recently as VvD.

We've already proven that if you're good enough at Celtic you will have the opportunity to move on and right now we're in the best position we've ever been to demand the going rate for what could be a French International striker.

If he doesn't want to go then we don't sell him, simple. My point is to play the game that the players want thus making us an attractive proposition to more of them.

The greedy point is based on if he wants to go, it would be greedy and possibly self defeating not to sell him under those circumstances.

So what do we do if he says he wants to go?


Edit: If anyone should feel shafted (legally) it is Fulham.
Edited by Adam Smith 11, 31 Jan 2017, 08:21 AM.
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Jimmy_mac
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Wailer
31 Jan 2017, 08:11 AM
What if he doesn't want to go right now and wants to progress as a player a bit more 1st.

Getting greedy?... surely we should be fed up being shafted as we have been in the past and as recently as VvD.

We've already proven that if you're good enough at Celtic you will have the opportunity to move on and right now we're in the best position we've ever been to demand the going rate for what could be a French International striker.

The first part of your post is the only question that matters. If Moussa wants to stay, he stays. To quote Adam Smith 11, the goose that laid the golden egg is not Moussa but the other young players we hope to bring in. It sends the wrong message if we punt him as soon as an offer comes in, regardless of the players wishes, just as it sends the wrong message if we keep him when he wants to move on for his own development.
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Adam Smith 11
31 Jan 2017, 08:16 AM
Wailer
31 Jan 2017, 08:11 AM
Adam Smith 11
31 Jan 2017, 07:55 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
What if he doesn't want to go right now and wants to progress as a player a bit more 1st.

Getting greedy?... surely we should be fed up being shafted as we have been in the past and as recently as VvD.

We've already proven that if you're good enough at Celtic you will have the opportunity to move on and right now we're in the best position we've ever been to demand the going rate for what could be a French International striker.

If he doesn't want to go then we don't sell him, simple. My point is to play the game that the players want thus making us an attractive proposition to more of them.

The greedy point is based on if he wants to go, it would be greedy and possibly self defeating not to sell him under those circumstances.

So what do we do if he says he wants to go?


Edit: If anyone has been shafted (legally) it is Fulham.
We'd have to see what happens then but I don't believe he will.

The biggest difference this time is that it doesn't seem to be a 'stepping stone' club we'll be selling him to this time so we will be, or should be, getting a premium for him.
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tomtheleedstim
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Apart from anything else, it's too soon to sell Dembele. I know we want propective signings to choose us as the path to the EPL but we want them to know they have to play for 2/3 years to give us some stability.
Keep him for 18 months then cash in. Doesn't sound like the boy wants away yet anyway.
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McAvennie
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If Chelsea offer us 40 million take it. We'd be mad to turn it down.
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Wailer
31 Jan 2017, 08:24 AM
Adam Smith 11
31 Jan 2017, 08:16 AM
Wailer
31 Jan 2017, 08:11 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
If he doesn't want to go then we don't sell him, simple. My point is to play the game that the players want thus making us an attractive proposition to more of them.

The greedy point is based on if he wants to go, it would be greedy and possibly self defeating not to sell him under those circumstances.

So what do we do if he says he wants to go?


Edit: If anyone has been shafted (legally) it is Fulham.
We'd have to see what happens then but I don't believe he will.

The biggest difference this time is that it doesn't seem to be a 'stepping stone' club we'll be selling him to this time so we will be, or should be, getting a premium for him.
It is a hypothetical question, I know.

I'm just interested in what other supporters views are if he did want to go. Should we hold him to contract or play the game?

The question is based on the offer being £30m or more.

if you were BR what would you do in those circumstances?
Edited by Adam Smith 11, 31 Jan 2017, 08:31 AM.
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Adam Smith 11
31 Jan 2017, 08:31 AM
Wailer
31 Jan 2017, 08:24 AM
Adam Smith 11
31 Jan 2017, 08:16 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
We'd have to see what happens then but I don't believe he will.

The biggest difference this time is that it doesn't seem to be a 'stepping stone' club we'll be selling him to this time so we will be, or should be, getting a premium for him.
It is a hypothetical question, I know.

I'm just interested in what other supporters views are if he did want to go. Should we hold him to contract or play the game?

The question is based on the offer being £30m or more.

if you were BR what would you do in those circumstances?
Of course you'd be tempted to sign him but also you have the benefit of his progression over 6 months and the possible CL again next season. We have a good argument for him to stay another year and I'd hope that we would be doing everything in our power to convince him of that. If he's desperate to go so be it.
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If the offer is on the table we would be daft not to take it (assuming the player wants to go). There is no guarantee we will make the CL next season with Dembele in the squad. 30 plus million on the back of the CL money this year gives us as good an opportunity as any to build a squad capable of going in the direction we want to go in.

Personally I'd rather give Rodgers this time to find a new striker and other pieces to the puzzle than have us floundering in the middle of the summer.
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McAvennie
31 Jan 2017, 08:31 AM
If Chelsea offer us 40 million take it. We'd be mad to turn it down.
We'd be mad to accept it. If he's worth 40 now, he'll be worth even more after another CL campaign and a call up for France. I expect him to be here for another 18 months.
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Fly Pelican
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Sounds like Conte rates the spl, or Celtic at least. We should be looking for opportunities there regardless of what happens with Dembele and Gordon.
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McAvennie
31 Jan 2017, 08:31 AM
If Chelsea offer us 40 million take it. We'd be mad to turn it down.
I'm inclined to agree but £40m wouldn't put the ball in the net on Wednesday night, or on Saturday.

Sell if we have a replacement ready to step up.
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Adam Smith 11
31 Jan 2017, 08:31 AM
Wailer
31 Jan 2017, 08:24 AM
Adam Smith 11
31 Jan 2017, 08:16 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
We'd have to see what happens then but I don't believe he will.

The biggest difference this time is that it doesn't seem to be a 'stepping stone' club we'll be selling him to this time so we will be, or should be, getting a premium for him.
It is a hypothetical question, I know.

I'm just interested in what other supporters views are if he did want to go. Should we hold him to contract or play the game?

The question is based on the offer being £30m or more.

if you were BR what would you do in those circumstances?
In the above case scenario we couldn't hold onto the player forcibly, without it doing lots of peripheral damage.

Best we could hope for, under these circumstances, is an agreed sale in the summer, and the player carries on here until then.
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