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Celtic Park Improvements; What are the board planning
Topic Started: 6 Dec 2016, 02:22 PM (323,111 Views)
four-leaf-clover
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"Celtic!" he replied (with a smile)
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Wilfred Benitez
28 Nov 2017, 11:46 PM
four-leaf-clover
28 Nov 2017, 11:21 PM
Wilfred Benitez
27 Nov 2017, 09:27 PM
In 1892 when CP2 opened there was no Barrowfield housing estate and all of that Stamford St Barrowfield St etc would have come under Camlachie :thumbsup:

In later years when the housing estate went up , only a railway line separated Celtic Park from Barrowfield, infact you could have tied a washing line from Davaar or Dalserf Street to the turnstiles of Celtic park.

Friends of mine stayed in them verandah houses in Janefield St that looked onto Celtic park ( Ian Ferguson stayed there) They lived in Camlachie not and Barrowfield not Parkhead. That's why i say CP2 address was Janefield St Camlachie.
So Barrowfield was strictly the scheme, and not an area as such?

makes sense.

So referencing your map above, what streets would you say were the boundaries of Barrowfield?
Housing estate only goes back to about 1936 when Bridgeton Waverleys ground got took over by Glasgow corporation to build the estate, Boundary would be Fielden st/London Road/Camlachie St and the railway line at Stamford St.

Francie & Josie sang a song about Camlachie

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Chessie
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Vinnie Bhoy
28 Nov 2017, 11:47 PM
What is the next steps for the hotel and museum? Have we got planning permission yet or was it all talk, similar to when the school was pulled down for the proposed museum?
When the original Celtic Master Plans were submitted there was no inclusion of a hotel (museum, superstore, ticket office only). Taking down the old school as part of that plan made sense due to its condition and the proposed position of said development. Things change though, and those changes take time. At the time of the original Celtic master plan there was already a proposed hotel and shopping complex (with full planning approval) underway on the site next to the Emirates arena, That was placed on hold in early 2013 with the developer blaming the GCC for not guaranteeing the land was free of contamination and the GCC arguing the developer was simply stalling.

The point being that it would have made no commercial sense for Celtic to develop a hotel with one being built across the road but when the circumstances of the private development changed a commercial opportunity then arises. A commercially astute board will take cognisance of the changing circumstances and explore the options fully. Although I'm just surmising, I think that's what's happened here. A feasibility study has been undertaken, revised plans have been drafted and submitted and now the real work is getting financial partners on board (though again I think we will have at least some key private secured ) but we may be pressing for some public partnership also
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four-leaf-clover
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"Celtic!" he replied (with a smile)
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four-leaf-clover
28 Nov 2017, 11:07 PM
medwaygerry1
27 Nov 2017, 09:55 PM
F.L.C did you know T B when he lived in Soho St,and did he wear glasses when he was young?
Yes i knew Tam, he was in my class ( that was the class with 10,000 in it :rocker: )

Rather i was in his class as he was there before me as i had came from St Marks Shettleston when it closed and moved to St Andrews.

I don't remember him wearing specs but he did have them, even in 1971/72 Tam was a very skilful player who played for the Mary guild and Eastercraigs who was the team everybody wanted to play for, it was around about that time Celtic came in for him.

Just had a look through TB book, he say he wore glasses from the age of 9 but only in the hoose and no outside.
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jives miguel
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Chessie
29 Nov 2017, 12:37 AM
Vinnie Bhoy
28 Nov 2017, 11:47 PM
What is the next steps for the hotel and museum? Have we got planning permission yet or was it all talk, similar to when the school was pulled down for the proposed museum?
When the original Celtic Master Plans were submitted there was no inclusion of a hotel (museum, superstore, ticket office only). Taking down the old school as part of that plan made sense due to its condition and the proposed position of said development. Things change though, and those changes take time. At the time of the original Celtic master plan there was already a proposed hotel and shopping complex (with full planning approval) underway on the site next to the Emirates arena, That was placed on hold in early 2013 with the developer blaming the GCC for not guaranteeing the land was free of contamination and the GCC arguing the developer was simply stalling.

The point being that it would have made no commercial sense for Celtic to develop a hotel with one being built across the road but when the circumstances of the private development changed a commercial opportunity then arises. A commercially astute board will take cognisance of the changing circumstances and explore the options fully. Although I'm just surmising, I think that's what's happened here. A feasibility study has been undertaken, revised plans have been drafted and submitted and now the real work is getting financial partners on board (though again I think we will have at least some key private secured ) but we may be pressing for some public partnership also
Thanks for that.

:thumbsup:
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tinytim81
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Might be wrong but I thought planning permission for the hotel had been approved.

Wonder when the board think construction might begin.
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Wilfred Benitez
Whatever it is, love'll fix it...
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four-leaf-clover
29 Nov 2017, 12:26 AM
Wilfred Benitez
28 Nov 2017, 11:46 PM
four-leaf-clover
28 Nov 2017, 11:21 PM
So Barrowfield was strictly the scheme, and not an area as such?

makes sense.

So referencing your map above, what streets would you say were the boundaries of Barrowfield?
Housing estate only goes back to about 1936 when Bridgeton Waverleys ground got took over by Glasgow corporation to build the estate, Boundary would be Fielden st/London Road/Camlachie St and the railway line at Stamford St.

Francie & Josie sang a song about Camlachie

The stuff you know and the recall you have is effing amazing!
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Corky Buczek
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mikebhoy
28 Nov 2017, 11:30 PM
jmhgg
28 Nov 2017, 02:20 PM
elparaiso
27 Nov 2017, 10:48 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Exactly. This is just a disaster for fans who have any distance to travel or are not particularly mobile.
I travel from Edinburgh and my options are
1. drive - I generally leave at 1pm and get back about 6. I am away for 5 hours.
2. supporters bus - I need to get into City centre. I would need to leave my house at 12 and not get back until 7 ish.
3. Train - as above but probably takes a bit longer.
Golf is in decline (amongst other things) because people just cannot justify the time taken for a round. If I had to add 2 hours onto my day then I would need to think about whether I can justify this on a weekly basis. I could park outside the zone but how long before the cordon is extended and my Dad struggles with walking any great distances.
I can understand the frustration of locals but if someone is parking irresponsibly, there is legislation in force to deal with that.
I suspect this will happen but the Club should be taking a lead on this. Celtic is also very good for the area and this should not be underestimated.
You can get a direct train from Edinburgh to Bellgrove which is a 15 minute walk from the ground. 1pm train would get you to Bellgrove for just after 2.

The parking restrictions are being implemented City-wide as far as I can tell; they’re currently in the process of rolling these out across Partick so it’s clearly part of a wider approach to remove free on street parking in high demand areas.
Then the council needs to provide public transport alternatives when they do this. GCC in terms of joined up thinking on transport is an utter scandal on this issue and have been for decades.

Once upon a time there was a man hailed as a civic transport visionary. His name was David Begg and was based in Edinburgh. His argument was is that if you annoy the car driver then it will force him out his car onto public transport. His ideas were enthusiastically embraced in councils across Scotland. Great - only problem being that unless you provide reasonable alternatives all you do is annoy the driver, increase his journey and actually make pollution worse as the driver spend longer in his car and pumps more CO2 into the atmosphere. I think Mr Begg was not so much visionary, more Rasputin.

I live on the Glasgow side of the GW/Barrhead border. CP is about ten miles away from my house. To get to CP for kick off, I'd have to leave my house at 12.40 for the train or by bus. To get home, I'm looking at around 7. Hence I take the car, but give me a reasonable public transport alternative and I would love to leave it at the house.

As Harry Brady has pointed out, GCC say they want everyone who parks around CP to take public transport whilst not seeming to realise that public transport to and from CP is already full on match day. The likelihood is that my journey times by public transport would take longer as more folk battle to get on the already full buses and trains.

Cities such as Coventry and Liverpool have decided to get rid of bus lanes as they were merely causing traffic jams and more polluting gases into the air. They were also only saving bus journey's by 5 minutes. GCC unfortunately has a totally "four legs good, two legs bad" mentality. They could patrol the parking and if folk are parking across driveways etc then fine them. As others have mentioned all this is doing is moving the problem a mile away.

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Monthecandy
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Wilfred Benitez
28 Nov 2017, 11:46 PM
four-leaf-clover
28 Nov 2017, 11:21 PM
Wilfred Benitez
27 Nov 2017, 09:27 PM
In 1892 when CP2 opened there was no Barrowfield housing estate and all of that Stamford St Barrowfield St etc would have come under Camlachie :thumbsup:

In later years when the housing estate went up , only a railway line separated Celtic Park from Barrowfield, infact you could have tied a washing line from Davaar or Dalserf Street to the turnstiles of Celtic park.

Friends of mine stayed in them verandah houses in Janefield St that looked onto Celtic park ( Ian Ferguson stayed there) They lived in Camlachie not and Barrowfield not Parkhead. That's why i say CP2 address was Janefield St Camlachie.
So Barrowfield was strictly the scheme, and not an area as such?

makes sense.

So referencing your map above, what streets would you say were the boundaries of Barrowfield?
Barrowfield was also the name of the old Celtic training ground behind the social club on London.
And Clyde's early history mentions playing at Barrowfield about a mile south of Celtic Park.
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Monthecandy
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four-leaf-clover
29 Nov 2017, 12:26 AM
Wilfred Benitez
28 Nov 2017, 11:46 PM
four-leaf-clover
28 Nov 2017, 11:21 PM
So Barrowfield was strictly the scheme, and not an area as such?

makes sense.

So referencing your map above, what streets would you say were the boundaries of Barrowfield?
Housing estate only goes back to about 1936 when Bridgeton Waverleys ground got took over by Glasgow corporation to build the estate, Boundary would be Fielden st/London Road/Camlachie St and the railway line at Stamford St.

Francie & Josie sang a song about Camlachie

Was the old Bridgeton Waverley ground at Barrowfield behind the social club that Celtic used for training, actually called New Barrowfield Park?
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Forza
Considering retirement
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mikebhoy
28 Nov 2017, 11:30 PM
jmhgg
28 Nov 2017, 02:20 PM
elparaiso
27 Nov 2017, 10:48 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Exactly. This is just a disaster for fans who have any distance to travel or are not particularly mobile.
I travel from Edinburgh and my options are
1. drive - I generally leave at 1pm and get back about 6. I am away for 5 hours.
2. supporters bus - I need to get into City centre. I would need to leave my house at 12 and not get back until 7 ish.
3. Train - as above but probably takes a bit longer.
Golf is in decline (amongst other things) because people just cannot justify the time taken for a round. If I had to add 2 hours onto my day then I would need to think about whether I can justify this on a weekly basis. I could park outside the zone but how long before the cordon is extended and my Dad struggles with walking any great distances.
I can understand the frustration of locals but if someone is parking irresponsibly, there is legislation in force to deal with that.
I suspect this will happen but the Club should be taking a lead on this. Celtic is also very good for the area and this should not be underestimated.
You can get a direct train from Edinburgh to Bellgrove which is a 15 minute walk from the ground. 1pm train would get you to Bellgrove for just after 2.

The parking restrictions are being implemented City-wide as far as I can tell; they’re currently in the process of rolling these out across Partick so it’s clearly part of a wider approach to remove free on street parking in high demand areas.
Edinburgh is one thing. Trains to Glasgow are quite frequent and can often be reasonably priced. Other places in Scotland are quite another.

Celtic season ticket holders travel from all over Scotland. Dundee, Aberdeen, Inverness and many places in between that have no rail services worthy of the name. Not all of them travel on supporters buses either. Even of the many that do, they will often opt to take the car on the many occasions where getting a half day off for a midweek game is not an option.

3pm Saturday games can probably be negotiated by train, but the cost of doing so is absolutely horrendous from those places mentioned. This is compared to four or five people regularly sharing petrol costs for a car journey. Note: SHARING a car, not inefficiently using five separate cars to converge on the East End, like the big bad, polluting, Ambulance blocking parking menaces GCC seem to take great delight in describing.

I've yet to see how a train carries people in this situation to midweek matches, particularly for sold out European games.

If the club and, more pertinently, GCC's response to these valid concerns is simply "deal with it, we've put on mair buses", then I can see a permanent downturn in the number of season ticket holders from these types of places. I wouldn't exactly underestimate how many there are, either. Spend some money to give us a place to park safely (that we'll be happy to pay a small fee for) and let us travel into the game by bus from there. Don't tell us you've put more buses on from Hamilton and the likes, because it is of absolutely no use to us.

Celtic Park draws over 55,000 people to the east end of Glasgow 25 times a year, spending a considerable amount of money in the local area, and not simply all in Celtic Park. Many are from nowhere near Glasgow. As usual though, a council has sought to dwell on the negative of this.
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RoyAitken
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Getting on a bit
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Monthecandy
29 Nov 2017, 12:56 PM
Wilfred Benitez
28 Nov 2017, 11:46 PM
four-leaf-clover
28 Nov 2017, 11:21 PM
So Barrowfield was strictly the scheme, and not an area as such?

makes sense.

So referencing your map above, what streets would you say were the boundaries of Barrowfield?
Barrowfield was also the name of the old Celtic training ground behind the social club on London.
And Clyde's early history mentions playing at Barrowfield about a mile south of Celtic Park.
Clyde originally played at Barrowfield.

Edit: Sorry, didn't read that properly. The Barrowfield they played at was right on the banks of the Clyde.
Edited by RoyAitken, 29 Nov 2017, 01:22 PM.
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searcher52
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Vinnie Bhoy
28 Nov 2017, 11:47 PM
What is the next steps for the hotel and museum? Have we got planning permission yet or was it all talk, similar to when the school was pulled down for the proposed museum?
I think there might be other hurdles to jump over if the fascia of CP has listed building status.
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Otis
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searcher52
29 Nov 2017, 01:26 PM
Vinnie Bhoy
28 Nov 2017, 11:47 PM
What is the next steps for the hotel and museum? Have we got planning permission yet or was it all talk, similar to when the school was pulled down for the proposed museum?
I think there might be other hurdles to jump over if the fascia of CP has listed building status.
It doesnae.
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tomtom
First name on the team-sheet
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Corky Buczek
29 Nov 2017, 12:52 PM
mikebhoy
28 Nov 2017, 11:30 PM
jmhgg
28 Nov 2017, 02:20 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
You can get a direct train from Edinburgh to Bellgrove which is a 15 minute walk from the ground. 1pm train would get you to Bellgrove for just after 2.

The parking restrictions are being implemented City-wide as far as I can tell; they’re currently in the process of rolling these out across Partick so it’s clearly part of a wider approach to remove free on street parking in high demand areas.
Then the council needs to provide public transport alternatives when they do this. GCC in terms of joined up thinking on transport is an utter scandal on this issue and have been for decades.

Once upon a time there was a man hailed as a civic transport visionary. His name was David Begg and was based in Edinburgh. His argument was is that if you annoy the car driver then it will force him out his car onto public transport. His ideas were enthusiastically embraced in councils across Scotland. Great - only problem being that unless you provide reasonable alternatives all you do is annoy the driver, increase his journey and actually make pollution worse as the driver spend longer in his car and pumps more CO2 into the atmosphere. I think Mr Begg was not so much visionary, more Rasputin.

I live on the Glasgow side of the GW/Barrhead border. CP is about ten miles away from my house. To get to CP for kick off, I'd have to leave my house at 12.40 for the train or by bus. To get home, I'm looking at around 7. Hence I take the car, but give me a reasonable public transport alternative and I would love to leave it at the house.

As Harry Brady has pointed out, GCC say they want everyone who parks around CP to take public transport whilst not seeming to realise that public transport to and from CP is already full on match day. The likelihood is that my journey times by public transport would take longer as more folk battle to get on the already full buses and trains.

Cities such as Coventry and Liverpool have decided to get rid of bus lanes as they were merely causing traffic jams and more polluting gases into the air. They were also only saving bus journey's by 5 minutes. GCC unfortunately has a totally "four legs good, two legs bad" mentality. They could patrol the parking and if folk are parking across driveways etc then fine them. As others have mentioned all this is doing is moving the problem a mile away.

A bus service from the city centre that actually stops outside CP on London Road would be a big help.
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Exercelt
Occasional Substitute
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tomtom
29 Nov 2017, 01:35 PM
Corky Buczek
29 Nov 2017, 12:52 PM
mikebhoy
28 Nov 2017, 11:30 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Then the council needs to provide public transport alternatives when they do this. GCC in terms of joined up thinking on transport is an utter scandal on this issue and have been for decades.

Once upon a time there was a man hailed as a civic transport visionary. His name was David Begg and was based in Edinburgh. His argument was is that if you annoy the car driver then it will force him out his car onto public transport. His ideas were enthusiastically embraced in councils across Scotland. Great - only problem being that unless you provide reasonable alternatives all you do is annoy the driver, increase his journey and actually make pollution worse as the driver spend longer in his car and pumps more CO2 into the atmosphere. I think Mr Begg was not so much visionary, more Rasputin.

I live on the Glasgow side of the GW/Barrhead border. CP is about ten miles away from my house. To get to CP for kick off, I'd have to leave my house at 12.40 for the train or by bus. To get home, I'm looking at around 7. Hence I take the car, but give me a reasonable public transport alternative and I would love to leave it at the house.

As Harry Brady has pointed out, GCC say they want everyone who parks around CP to take public transport whilst not seeming to realise that public transport to and from CP is already full on match day. The likelihood is that my journey times by public transport would take longer as more folk battle to get on the already full buses and trains.

Cities such as Coventry and Liverpool have decided to get rid of bus lanes as they were merely causing traffic jams and more polluting gases into the air. They were also only saving bus journey's by 5 minutes. GCC unfortunately has a totally "four legs good, two legs bad" mentality. They could patrol the parking and if folk are parking across driveways etc then fine them. As others have mentioned all this is doing is moving the problem a mile away.

A bus service from the city centre that actually stops outside CP on London Road would be a big help.
This after Bridgeton cross for the zombies to pelt the bus?

There are very few buses that serve the east end, I live past Celtic Park and buses after rush hour are thin on the ground
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jmhgg
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mikebhoy
28 Nov 2017, 11:30 PM
jmhgg
28 Nov 2017, 02:20 PM
elparaiso
27 Nov 2017, 10:48 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Exactly. This is just a disaster for fans who have any distance to travel or are not particularly mobile.
I travel from Edinburgh and my options are
1. drive - I generally leave at 1pm and get back about 6. I am away for 5 hours.
2. supporters bus - I need to get into City centre. I would need to leave my house at 12 and not get back until 7 ish.
3. Train - as above but probably takes a bit longer.
Golf is in decline (amongst other things) because people just cannot justify the time taken for a round. If I had to add 2 hours onto my day then I would need to think about whether I can justify this on a weekly basis. I could park outside the zone but how long before the cordon is extended and my Dad struggles with walking any great distances.
I can understand the frustration of locals but if someone is parking irresponsibly, there is legislation in force to deal with that.
I suspect this will happen but the Club should be taking a lead on this. Celtic is also very good for the area and this should not be underestimated.
You can get a direct train from Edinburgh to Bellgrove which is a 15 minute walk from the ground. 1pm train would get you to Bellgrove for just after 2.

The parking restrictions are being implemented City-wide as far as I can tell; they’re currently in the process of rolling these out across Partick so it’s clearly part of a wider approach to remove free on street parking in high demand areas.
Thanks Mike - I have some friends who get the train but it is the getting back and from Edinburgh that just adds more time and cost onto the day.
As other posters have said, three of us travel in the car and we have never parked on double yellow lines, over someone's drive or generally been a carrot to the people who live locally.
As you say, it is part of a wider crusade to get people out of their cars but without adequate public transport it seems that it is just wonky logic.
I drafted an email to Glasgow Council asking them how many parking tickets they have issued in connection with these restrictions and what staff they have on duty to enforce the restrictions and will send that. However, it seems to me that they have made up their minds and we just need to suck it up.
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littlegmbhoy
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The decision by GCC is beyond a joke.

I do not live in the East End but surely to feck the ££ we contribute towards the area is worth the 3/4 hours of people converging. FWIW Im sure there are moments of parking frustration for locals but surely the positives out weigh the negatives.

Plus GCC saying about consulting transport etc. From what has been stated we have very few buses serving the area and the train station(Dalmarnock) is 20 minuites walk and all trains towards city have to go through Bridgeton which is a mess in itself waiting to happen. We do not even have a large area to park as football fans.

If you make a monumental decision like this then you have to have alternatives. I cannot see that they do in its current setup nor logistics.


Nonsense decision without other transport to back it up or a proper solution. I have a very young child I have started to introduce Celtic and it does not suit not being able to take her to games out with my car as Im sure for other reason most fans it is as well.


Further alienating fans fronm the game. Club have to speak up here and do something...or are they already?
Edited by littlegmbhoy, 29 Nov 2017, 02:32 PM.
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tomtheleedstim
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tomtom
29 Nov 2017, 01:35 PM
Corky Buczek
29 Nov 2017, 12:52 PM
mikebhoy
28 Nov 2017, 11:30 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Then the council needs to provide public transport alternatives when they do this. GCC in terms of joined up thinking on transport is an utter scandal on this issue and have been for decades.

Once upon a time there was a man hailed as a civic transport visionary. His name was David Begg and was based in Edinburgh. His argument was is that if you annoy the car driver then it will force him out his car onto public transport. His ideas were enthusiastically embraced in councils across Scotland. Great - only problem being that unless you provide reasonable alternatives all you do is annoy the driver, increase his journey and actually make pollution worse as the driver spend longer in his car and pumps more CO2 into the atmosphere. I think Mr Begg was not so much visionary, more Rasputin.

I live on the Glasgow side of the GW/Barrhead border. CP is about ten miles away from my house. To get to CP for kick off, I'd have to leave my house at 12.40 for the train or by bus. To get home, I'm looking at around 7. Hence I take the car, but give me a reasonable public transport alternative and I would love to leave it at the house.

As Harry Brady has pointed out, GCC say they want everyone who parks around CP to take public transport whilst not seeming to realise that public transport to and from CP is already full on match day. The likelihood is that my journey times by public transport would take longer as more folk battle to get on the already full buses and trains.

Cities such as Coventry and Liverpool have decided to get rid of bus lanes as they were merely causing traffic jams and more polluting gases into the air. They were also only saving bus journey's by 5 minutes. GCC unfortunately has a totally "four legs good, two legs bad" mentality. They could patrol the parking and if folk are parking across driveways etc then fine them. As others have mentioned all this is doing is moving the problem a mile away.

A bus service from the city centre that actually stops outside CP on London Road would be a big help.
I'm surprised that they don't put on football special buses to Celtic Park/Ibrox on match days. They've been doing that in Leeds for years. It's hardly visionary. http://www.wymetro.com/howtogetto/sportsvenues/Football/EllandRoad/
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tomtom
First name on the team-sheet
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tomtheleedstim
29 Nov 2017, 02:36 PM
tomtom
29 Nov 2017, 01:35 PM
Corky Buczek
29 Nov 2017, 12:52 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
A bus service from the city centre that actually stops outside CP on London Road would be a big help.
I'm surprised that they don't put on football special buses to Celtic Park/Ibrox on match days. They've been doing that in Leeds for years. It's hardly visionary. http://www.wymetro.com/howtogetto/sportsvenues/Football/EllandRoad/
I was at a game in England many years ago (think it might have been Liverpool) and after the game there was a fleet of buses lined up to take fans back into the city centre. Don't know if they were free but they were certainly popular.

Regarding the buses getting attacked at Bridgeton this would be a matter for the local plod as they would all be normal service buses not football specials. CCTV plus boots on the ground would solve this. If we are admitting that in this day and age there are no go areas for buses then we truly are fecked!!
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mikebhoy
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Too old for hamlet, too young for Lear

Not true to say all trains go through Bridgeton - Bellgrove is on a different line into Queen Street
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